Having such a small garden and being an incorrigably impractical
collector, I need as much space for plants as I can find and therefore
don't have room for artificial structural focus. Over the past 7 or 8
years, I've relied upon the hardier bananas to provide this and with
their 3-4m high false stems and even longer leaves, they've done a
splendid job. Two species I use are the common Musa basjoo and the
increasingly popular Musa sikkimensis. Both are good, solidly reliable
and hardy species here that retain their 'trunks' without any
protection at all.

So far, so good. The other day I noticed that a 'trunk' in the basjoo
clump was in flower and by the looks of it, it had been out for a good
few weeks. I'm a bit embarrassed that I failed to notice what was
going on, but excuse myself by saying that the sikkimensis clump is
growing at such a rate and with greater vigour than basjoo - several
leaves had masked the emerging flower spike. The spike BTW emerges
almost horizontally and is somewhat thicker than a broom-handle. The
clusters of flowers are white-ish, borne in rows at the base of very
large, somewhat inflated and leathery bracts that are dull brownish on
the outside and faded ochre within. The bracts form a large bud at the
tip of the flower spike and protect the developing flowers.

Now some folks might be pleased to get even a common species such as
basjoo into flower, but it has happened here before and is a relative
non-event since basjoo cannot produce mature fruits unless the flowers
are pollinated. Bananas have separate male and female flowers on the
same spike, but not at the same time. The female flowers always open
first, followed by the males, which continue over many weeks and
sometimes into autumn. Culinary bananas are sterile and fruit without
being pollinated, but many species need a suitable pollinator. Without
a this, the embryonic basjoo fruits cannot develop and they remain
finger-sized, green, fibrous and totally inedible. Since it is
exceptionally rare for a clump to produce two or more flower spikes at
slightly different stages, basjoo never fruits in the UK. So for me
this flowering is more of a pain, because it means that over the
coming months, an important 'trunk' will die away, leaving me with the
headache of disposing of it.

This morning, I was looking at the sikkimensis clump quite closely and
it dawned on me that the reason for a particularly ragged and
undersized set of leaves emerging from the top of the most important
'nana trunk' in the garden was that it too is about to flower.
Whoo-hoo! Crack open the Banrock's Sparkling Shiraz and let's
celebrate. Well, erm not really. This trunk is at the centre of the
clump and its eventual demise will throw the focus of the garden out of
kilter. Of course I was aware that this would happen eventually and
surprised it didn't do so last year. However, to lose two important
trunks in the same year is going to cause me a bit of head-scratching
to say the least.

A small ray of sunshine is that basjoo is likely to pollinate
sikkimensis and since the bees obviously love the flowers, I can let
them do the business for me. If the coming autumn is long and mild
allowing the fruits to ripen, the seeds will yeild hybrids between
basjoo and sikkimensis and the fruits should taste half decent too.
Then I'll celebrate, but in the meantime I have to work out how to
dispose of two massive banana 'trunks', both of which are around 40cms.
in diameter at the base, weigh a ton and will not rot down in a compost
heap for a very, very long time even if shredded.

<whispers in a voice aside> bury emm, bury emm deep and remember;
don't talk, don't talk no matter what!

BTW: you could use the fibre from the Banana stem for binding stuff in
the garden. Dad composts his Banana stems after using a hacksaw to
slice them up ( longitudinally first and then latitudinally ). The
green outer layer takes ages to decompose, but the pith goes much
faster. He digs a 6'4'4' compost pit which he fills with cow-dung,
dog-poo and other green stuff. The whole thing is tarp'd all the time
except when we want to dump stuff. The weather is warmer here which
hastens the de-composition; not sure what you can do other than trying
to compost it. What about trying to make a mulch out off it?

"DavePoole Torquay" <daverpoole [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151232647.815374.74910 [at] b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Having such a small garden .......................

What about some pictures Dave ?
Jenny "~))

> > Having such a small garden .......................
>
> What about some pictures Dave ?
> Jenny "~))

<bursts into laughter> Anyway. Dave, did some googleing. Check out:
1. http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/~mushroom/English/glossary.html
Apparently fungi can speed up de-composition.
2. http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/C764-w.htm
Apparently nitrogen speeds up de-composition.

I also read an article where they said that it would not make sense to
plant legumes and then plow them under and then plant crop immediately
because the de-composing veg matter would hog all the nitrogen.

You could try dusting the chopped banana-stem in a Nitrogen-fertilizer
and placing it seperately in a corner of the compost pit where it's
nice and warm, with plenty of veg matter and purchased fungi. Link 1
has names of fungi..or just wiki that.

Give us the results - if you try this !

Vivek.M <vivekm1234 [at] cyberspace.org> writes
>> > Having such a small garden .......................
>>
>> What about some pictures Dave ?
>> Jenny "~))
>
><bursts into laughter> Anyway. Dave, did some googleing. Check out:
>1. http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/~mushroom/English/glossary.html
>Apparently fungi can speed up de-composition.
>2. http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/C764-w.htm
>Apparently nitrogen speeds up de-composition.
>
>I also read an article where they said that it would not make sense to
>plant legumes and then plow them under and then plant crop immediately
>because the de-composing veg matter would hog all the nitrogen.
>
>You could try dusting the chopped banana-stem in a Nitrogen-fertilizer
>and placing it seperately in a corner of the compost pit where it's
>nice and warm, with plenty of veg matter and purchased fungi. Link 1
>has names of fungi..or just wiki that.
>
>Give us the results - if you try this !
>
I don't think Dave has room for a compost heap (1) ;-)

'Small' in an English garden means small. The first house I lived in as
an adult had a garden 20ft wide and 15ft deep.

(1) certainly not a banana sized one!
--
Kay

Kay wrote:

> I don't think Dave has room for a compost heap (1) ;-)
> 'Small' in an English garden means small. The first house I lived in as
> an adult had a garden 20ft wide and 15ft deep.
> (1) certainly not a banana sized one!

In total it is 6.5m wide and 10m. deep - a typical size for an
Edwardian town house this close to the sea. There's a 'green lane' -
a service track behind, which enables me to carefully disguise a
compost heap of sorts under a massive Fuchsia (currently about 3m. high
and 4m across). It may seem daft to grow massive plants in such a
cramped space, but they do make tiny garden appear much larger. I also
have big clumps of 'flowering gingers' (Hedychiums) that grow between 2
and 3m high and palms with 1.5m wide fans. It all adds up to the kind
of exuberance I enjoy, even though there's not a lot of room to to move
about by mid July.

I'm aware of the various methods for speeding up decomposition, but
past experience has shown that they don't work with the stems ... at
least not here. I think the only option is to cut them into 1m.
sections and cart them off to the local tip. Anyway, that's a job for
the winter and a very messy one at that. I've been thinking more
positively and for a year or so at least, their demise will allow more
light into the border, which will be welcome.

I've got a nice young Mastic tree (Schinus molle) coming on and
although barely a year old, it has already proved very cool tolerant,
retaining all of its leaves during last winter. I'm tempted to remove
the basjoo altogether at some stage and replace it with this. It will
cast only light shade by comparison and its elegant willowy growth plus
skeins of pink peppercorns in late summer an autumn will be make a nice
change. Another evergreen tree will enable me to grow more 'air
plants' (Tillandsias) outside as well. Several species grow well here
and I'm eager to try more.

Jenny, I'm keeping a photo-record where I can get decent shots. I'll
get them up onto a site at some stage. This gives you some idea of
what I'm up to nowadays:

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/?action=vi ew&current=lasio.jpg

The centre plant is another banana relative: Musella lasiocarpa that
thrives here growing to about 2m+. high. It nestles against the trunks
of Musa sikkimensis and is partnered by Cordyline manners-suttonae - a
close 'cousin' of C. fruticosa (terminalis). Beneath it you can make
out the fronds of one of the 'parlour palms - Chamaedorea radicalis,
which is very hardy, albeit rather slow. The red-budded passion flower
is P. x coeruleo-racemosa, which opens soft purplish red and forms a
tangle with Plumbago auriculata, Jasminum polyanthum and Clematis
florida 'Pistachio'.

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/?action=vi ew&current=martianus2.jpg

The main plant here is a young Trachycarpus martianus. Nowhere near as
hardy as the common 'Chusan' (T. fortunei), the leaflets are far more
numerous, narrower and the fans eventually become almost circular as
the palm matures. The white down on the leaf edges and covering the
new leaves adds to the appeal. The stray frond creeping in to the rear
is that of a young 'Majesty palm' - Ravenea rivularis from Madagascar.
It's not very hardy here and needs winter protection as well as copious
watering and feeding in summer, but I like the elegant leaves.

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:50:46 +0100, K <k [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I don't think Dave has room for a compost heap (1) ;-)
>'Small' in an English garden means small. The first house I lived in as
>an adult had a garden 20ft wide and 15ft deep.
>
>(1) certainly not a banana sized one!
Ghosh! I thought his "small" meant "actually big, but had filled it
up with plants and stuff"; which is why i was grinning like a silly
monkey, because my Dad does the same brilliant thing with the house (
fills it up with precious "gems", that are too precious to dispose!
LoL ) Anyway ..

Hmm..well he could dry the Banana-stem shavings to get rid of excess
moisture ( on the roof, if it's possible; that will shrink them a bit
and speed up decomposition ) then heave emm all in-to a nylon-sack or
plastic-bag along with the nitrogen, fungus and other mycelium; Then
seal the bag shut. It won't hog too much place and he could leave it
on the roof to keep it warm.

Vivek.M wrote:

> Hmm..well he could dry the Banana-stem shavings to get rid of excess
> moisture ( on the roof, if it's possible; that will shrink them a bit
> and speed up decomposition )

Erm - heaving bags of of banana-trunk bits up on to the roof ? This
might work with a flat roof where they could be out of sight, but not
on a pitched, slated one. Even if bags could be fixed so as not to
slide off (no easy feat), the visual effect would not go down at all
well with neighbours. Nor me for that matter!

"DavePoole Torquay" <daverpoole [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151232647.815374.74910 [at] b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Having such a small garden and being an incorrigably impractical
> collector, I need as much space for plants as I can find and therefore
> don't have room for artificial structural focus. Over the past 7 or 8
> years, I've relied upon the hardier bananas to provide this and with
> their 3-4m high false stems and even longer leaves, they've done a
> splendid job. Two species I use are the common Musa basjoo and the
> increasingly popular Musa sikkimensis. Both are good, solidly reliable
> and hardy species here that retain their 'trunks' without any
> protection at all.
>
> So far, so good. The other day I noticed that a 'trunk' in the basjoo
> clump was in flower and by the looks of it, it had been out for a good
> few weeks. I'm a bit embarrassed that I failed to notice what was
> going on, but excuse myself by saying that the sikkimensis clump is
> growing at such a rate and with greater vigour than basjoo - several
> leaves had masked the emerging flower spike. The spike BTW emerges
> almost horizontally and is somewhat thicker than a broom-handle. The
> clusters of flowers are white-ish, borne in rows at the base of very
> large, somewhat inflated and leathery bracts that are dull brownish on
> the outside and faded ochre within. The bracts form a large bud at the
> tip of the flower spike and protect the developing flowers.
>
> Now some folks might be pleased to get even a common species such as
> basjoo into flower, but it has happened here before and is a relative
> non-event since basjoo cannot produce mature fruits unless the flowers
> are pollinated. Bananas have separate male and female flowers on the
> same spike, but not at the same time. The female flowers always open
> first, followed by the males, which continue over many weeks and
> sometimes into autumn. Culinary bananas are sterile and fruit without
> being pollinated, but many species need a suitable pollinator. Without
> a this, the embryonic basjoo fruits cannot develop and they remain
> finger-sized, green, fibrous and totally inedible. Since it is
> exceptionally rare for a clump to produce two or more flower spikes at
> slightly different stages, basjoo never fruits in the UK. So for me
> this flowering is more of a pain, because it means that over the
> coming months, an important 'trunk' will die away, leaving me with the
> headache of disposing of it.
>
> This morning, I was looking at the sikkimensis clump quite closely and
> it dawned on me that the reason for a particularly ragged and
> undersized set of leaves emerging from the top of the most important
> 'nana trunk' in the garden was that it too is about to flower.
> Whoo-hoo! Crack open the Banrock's Sparkling Shiraz and let's
> celebrate. Well, erm not really. This trunk is at the centre of the
> clump and its eventual demise will throw the focus of the garden out of
> kilter. Of course I was aware that this would happen eventually and
> surprised it didn't do so last year. However, to lose two important
> trunks in the same year is going to cause me a bit of head-scratching
> to say the least.
>
> A small ray of sunshine is that basjoo is likely to pollinate
> sikkimensis and since the bees obviously love the flowers, I can let
> them do the business for me. If the coming autumn is long and mild
> allowing the fruits to ripen, the seeds will yeild hybrids between
> basjoo and sikkimensis and the fruits should taste half decent too.
> Then I'll celebrate, but in the meantime I have to work out how to
> dispose of two massive banana 'trunks', both of which are around 40cms.
> in diameter at the base, weigh a ton and will not rot down in a compost
> heap for a very, very long time even if shredded.
>

Thanks for sharing that most useful info. It could be worse-your
Cardiocrinums and Bamboo could both be flowering as well as the Bananas.
If you shift the trunks up here I can guarantee that they will turn to mush
just like mine do each winter.
Will the crossed seed germinate and what might it produce?

Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:

> Thanks for sharing that most useful info. It could be worse-your
> Cardiocrinums and Bamboo could both be flowering as well as the Bananas.

Well, I don't do Cardicrinums - they wouldn't look quite right here and
bamboos just don't do it for me at all. Well, maybe Chusquaea couleou
and one or two odd-ball types, but I have to weigh up how much I like
something with how much space is available. Come to think of, I don't
go a bundle on most grasses either ... except Setaria palmifolia
(magnificent, wonderful, superb etc etc. but a bit tender) and at a
push, the variegated Arundos (bamboo-like, but with bigger, better
leaves). Yankee prairie grasses leave me cold and 'prairie plantings'
incorporating them much colder still. I digress as usual....

> If you shift the trunks up here I can guarantee that they will turn to mush
> just like mine do each winter.

Yeah and what a slimy mess too! It's a nightmare if the juice gets on
a shirt as well - stains it indelibly. I now keep 'nana-shirts', for
working in, especially if I'm trimming the leaves etc.

> Will the crossed seed germinate and what might it produce?

Well, the progeny could be very interesting. A more exotic, slightly
less hardy, but far more vigorous basjoo with a bit more colour? Maybe
a more slender growing sikki that is hardier, maybe anything else or a
batch of worthless runts. Who knows it's anyone's guess as to what
might happen. I've got a batch of hybrid Hedychiums I crossed last
year and each one could be a stunner or all could be a waste of time
and space. I have a couple of years before I find out. In the mean
time, I have to keep making more in case the first batch is duff and
the really good one doesn't pop up for until several attempts have been
made. It could be the same with the Musa, but more difficult because
getting the flowers of both species to sychronise with sufficient time
left in the year for the seeds to mature is not easily arranged.

Phew you can't imagine how difficult it is to respond to this whilst
listening to Rimsky Korsakov at full pelt. Nuff - 'The Festival in
Baghdad' wins!

DavePoole Torquay <daverpoole [at] hotmail.com> writes
>Kay wrote:
>
>> I don't think Dave has room for a compost heap (1) ;-)
>> 'Small' in an English garden means small. The first house I lived in as
>> an adult had a garden 20ft wide and 15ft deep.
>> (1) certainly not a banana sized one!
>
>In total it is 6.5m wide and 10m. deep - a typical size for an
>Edwardian town house this close to the sea. There's a 'green lane' -
>a service track behind, which enables me to carefully disguise a
>compost heap of sorts under a massive Fuchsia (currently about 3m. high
>and 4m across).

Is that the dimensions of the compost heap or the fuchsia?

>Jenny, I'm keeping a photo-record where I can get decent shots. I'll
>get them up onto a site at some stage. This gives you some idea of
>what I'm up to nowadays:
>
> http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/DavePoole1/?action=vi ew&current=l
>asio.jpg

Lovely! I do like plants to look enthusiastic and abundant, as if
they're bursting out of their available space. I hate the 'bare soil
dotted with plants' look.

I've just got a new garden :-)
My dad is moving up north, and the garden is exactly 'bare soil dotted
with plants' - all lovingly tended by current owner, who lavishes much
attention on, for example, growing primulas on a dry bank. It's the
opposite to my moist and shaded garden, so I can't wait!
>
--
Kay

K wrote:

> Is that the dimensions of the compost heap or the fuchsia?

The Fuchsia - they grow very big down 'ere!

> Lovely! I do like plants to look enthusiastic and abundant, as if
> they're bursting out of their available space. I hate the 'bare soil
> dotted with plants' look.

To my eyes, that's the only way to grow them. Anything less is a waste
of time and space. Minimalists (aka mini-maulists) Bah! Go away and
stop spreading ennui and start spreading manure!

In article <1151350121.807925.174360 [at] b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"DavePoole Torquay" <daverpoole [at] hotmail.com> writes:
|> K wrote:
|>
|> > Lovely! I do like plants to look enthusiastic and abundant, as if
|> > they're bursting out of their available space. I hate the 'bare soil
|> > dotted with plants' look.
|>
|> To my eyes, that's the only way to grow them. Anything less is a waste
|> of time and space. Minimalists (aka mini-maulists) Bah! Go away and
|> stop spreading ennui and start spreading manure!

Well, as someone who grew up in the savanna, I like that look - but
it needs a lot of space and a climate to suit! It isn't very different
in that respect to the UK parkland look, which is well suited to gardens
of a few hectares and up.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

> Well, as someone who grew up in the savanna, I like that look - but
> it needs a lot of space and a climate to suit! It isn't very different
> in that respect to the UK parkland look, which is well suited to gardens
> of a few hectares and up.

Fair enough Nick, but it doesn't suit me - I like it lush - utterly
lush and far more so than I can create here. Even when using far
hardier plants in much larger spaces, I have always been of that
opinion. Some go wild about rustting grasses in the wind and indeed
they can. That is their choice.

For me, the hint of wind is prescient of bitter intrusions from
inhospitably cold places and a reminder of winter. Whether it is
well-suited to larger gardens, remains purely a matter of personal
preference. I've been around long enough to remain unconvinced as to
its aesthetic benefits and to be honest, can't imagine a time when I'll
change. Stuck in the mud so to speak.

In article <1151352955.045835.225980 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
"DavePoole Torquay" <daverpoole [at] hotmail.com> writes:
|>
|> For me, the hint of wind is prescient of bitter intrusions from
|> inhospitably cold places and a reminder of winter. Whether it is
|> well-suited to larger gardens, remains purely a matter of personal
|> preference. I've been around long enough to remain unconvinced as to
|> its aesthetic benefits and to be honest, can't imagine a time when I'll
|> change. Stuck in the mud so to speak.

Well, I can relate to that, living in Cambridge! But even I don't
like the sort of wind that you pray to stop, just to get a chance to
cool down - I can assure you that genuinely hot winds are no more
pleasant than cold ones :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

> Well, I can relate to that, living in Cambridge! But even I don't
> like the sort of wind that you pray to stop, just to get a chance to
> cool down - I can assure you that genuinely hot winds are no more
> pleasant than cold ones :-)

Hmmm. Could do with a few of those warmer ones this morning Nick. The
readings showed a tad under 15C at 8am. but it felt decidedly chilly.
Desperately needed rain in the past 36 hours has brought temps right
down, but enough's enough. ;-)

A week ago, it looked as though June was going to finish with a month
average of 20C. for here. Now it seems it could go out at just 19C or
maybe a bit lower. Still, lighter skies are approaching from the
east, so the promised improvement may arrive soon.

Here's hoping.