Billy Bullseye wrote:

> My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she had
> been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
> slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat eating.
>
> As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show footage
> of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
> slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in the
> first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
> normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They are
> aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>
> Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
> rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??

The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left
crackpots. This is mostly true of state (public, in
North America) schools, but it infects even better
public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the
moral relativism and confusion of which it is evidence,
are products of the left. When someone tells you he is
an "animal rights activist", he has told you he is a
far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
extremists are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing
extremists.

This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise,
given all the other far left bullshit spoon-fed to
pupils in contemporary state schools. It's just one
more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.

For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most
of the bullshit. It's true that they do accept the
underlying collectivist mentality to an excessive
degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as
well. Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming
that good parenting can't subvert it. You have to talk
with your children and explain to them that the schools
are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these
people really have a malign view, and teach the
youngsters that while they should be polite and
attentive, they shouldn't believe everything -
actually, most of the things - they hear their teachers
say.

The maxim "question authority" usually is associated
with the left, but it now needs to be redirected *at*
the left. Teach your children to question the
authority of the state school propagandists.


>
>
> The class were also told that meat eating is bad for the environment. I can
> understand there is an argument for increased efficiency where animals eat
> food that humans could eat, but humans do not graze the hills and grassland
> can get along fine without the high energy inputs of cereal production - so
> is this rubbish??
>
> Before I complain to the school, Education dept or first minister, I'd be
> grateful for some informed opinion/facts here.
>
>
>

"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Billy Bullseye wrote:
>
>> My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>> had
>> been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
>> slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>> eating.
>>
>> As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>> footage
>> of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>> slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>> the
>> first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
>> normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>> are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>
>> Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>> rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>
> The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is mostly
> true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
> better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
> relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
> left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
> told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing extremists
> are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>
> This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
> far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools. It's
> just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>
> For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
> It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to an
> excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
> Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
> subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them that
> the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
> really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they should
> be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
> most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>
> The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but it
> now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to question
> the authority of the state school propagandists.

Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority alright -
but not always for the correct reasons.

She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit with
the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.

I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of certain
teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers are
deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
teach what they are told.

With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations or
what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell abotoir -
abbatoir perhaps??) the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be shown to
children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent for
sex education but not for propaganda?? I'm trying to get my hands on the
video before deciding what to do next.

Billy Bullseye wrote:

> "Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
> news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>had
>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>eating.
>>>
>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>footage
>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>the
>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>
>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>
>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is mostly
>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing extremists
>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>
>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools. It's
>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>
>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to an
>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them that
>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they should
>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>
>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but it
>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to question
>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>
>
> Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority alright -
> but not always for the correct reasons.
>
> She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit with
> the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>
> I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of certain
> teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers are
> deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
> teach what they are told.

I think the best course is to praise her for
independent thinking, but offer mild admonishments that
"question authority" does not, necessarily, mean
"reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately
questioning authority means to make those in positions
of authority have to demonstrate, repeatedly, that they
belong there.


> With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
> shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations or
> what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell abotoir -
> abbatoir perhaps??)

Abattoir.

I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs
frequently are run in ways that are inhumane. The
problem is people want their chops and steaks cheap,
and maintaining humane standards is costly.

It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar"
types to be focusing on inhumane conditions in
abattoirs. The places could be run according to the
most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be
shut down: we shouldn't be eating meat at all, in
their view.


> the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
> of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be shown to
> children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent for
> sex education but not for propaganda??

Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or
apparently need, parents' permission for much of
anything. That's one reason my child is not in the
public (state) schools.


> I'm trying to get my hands on the
> video before deciding what to do next.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:42:00 +0100, "Billy Bullseye"
<rumblings [at] CUTgmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>
>>> My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>> had
>>> been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
>>> slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>> eating.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>> footage
>>> of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>> slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>> the
>>> first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
>>> normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>> are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>
>>> Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>> rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>
>> The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is mostly
>> true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>> better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>> relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>> left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>> told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing extremists
>> are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>
>> This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>> far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools. It's
>> just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>
>> For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>> It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to an
>> excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>> Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>> subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them that
>> the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>> really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they should
>> be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>> most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>
>> The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but it
>> now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to question
>> the authority of the state school propagandists.
>
>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority alright -
>but not always for the correct reasons.
>
>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit with
>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>
>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of certain
>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers are
>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>teach what they are told.
>
>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations or
>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell abotoir -
>abbatoir perhaps??) the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be shown to
>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent for
>sex education but not for propaganda?? I'm trying to get my hands on the
>video before deciding what to do next.

You need to get a life.

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:23:57 GMT, Leif Erikson
<pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:

>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>
>> "Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>> news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>had
>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>eating.
>>>>
>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>footage
>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>the
>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>
>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>
>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is mostly
>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing extremists
>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>
>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools. It's
>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>
>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to an
>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them that
>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they should
>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>
>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but it
>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to question
>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>
>>
>> Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority alright -
>> but not always for the correct reasons.
>>
>> She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit with
>> the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>
>> I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of certain
>> teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers are
>> deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>> teach what they are told.
>
>I think the best course is to praise her for
>independent thinking, but offer mild admonishments that
>"question authority" does not, necessarily, mean
>"reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately
>questioning authority means to make those in positions
>of authority have to demonstrate, repeatedly, that they
>belong there.
>
>
>> With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>> shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations or
>> what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell abotoir -
>> abbatoir perhaps??)
>
>Abattoir.
>
>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs
>frequently are run in ways that are inhumane. The
>problem is people want their chops and steaks cheap,
>and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>
>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar"
>types to be focusing on inhumane conditions in
>abattoirs. The places could be run according to the
>most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be
>shut down: we shouldn't be eating meat at all, in
>their view.
>
>
>> the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>> of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be shown to
>> children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent for
>> sex education but not for propaganda??
>
>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or
>apparently need, parents' permission for much of
>anything. That's one reason my child is not in the
>public (state) schools.
>
>
>> I'm trying to get my hands on the
>> video before deciding what to do next.

No doubt another redneck in the making? Poor kid.

George wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:23:57 GMT, Leif Erikson
> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>had
>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>eating.
>>>>>
>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>footage
>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>the
>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>
>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is mostly
>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing extremists
>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>
>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools. It's
>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>
>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to an
>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them that
>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they should
>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>
>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but it
>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to question
>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>
>>>
>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority alright -
>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>
>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit with
>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>
>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of certain
>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers are
>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>teach what they are told.
>>
>>I think the best course is to praise her for
>>independent thinking, but offer mild admonishments that
>>"question authority" does not, necessarily, mean
>>"reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately
>>questioning authority means to make those in positions
>>of authority have to demonstrate, repeatedly, that they
>>belong there.
>>
>>
>>
>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations or
>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell abotoir -
>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>
>>Abattoir.
>>
>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs
>>frequently are run in ways that are inhumane. The
>>problem is people want their chops and steaks cheap,
>>and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>
>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar"
>>types to be focusing on inhumane conditions in
>>abattoirs. The places could be run according to the
>>most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be
>>shut down: we shouldn't be eating meat at all, in
>>their view.
>>
>>
>>
>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be shown to
>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent for
>>>sex education but not for propaganda??
>>
>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or
>>apparently need, parents' permission for much of
>>anything. That's one reason my child is not in the
>>public (state) schools.
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm trying to get my hands on the
>>>video before deciding what to do next.
>
>
> No doubt another redneck in the making?

Nope - another critically thinking individual who
rejects extremist bullshit. He's going to kick the
shit out of you some day, georgie. Bank on it.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:25:36 GMT, Leif Erikson
<pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:

>George wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:23:57 GMT, Leif Erikson
>> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>>had
>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>
>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is mostly
>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing extremists
>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>
>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools. It's
>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>
>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to an
>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them that
>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they should
>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>
>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but it
>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to question
>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority alright -
>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>
>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit with
>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of certain
>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers are
>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>
>>>I think the best course is to praise her for
>>>independent thinking, but offer mild admonishments that
>>>"question authority" does not, necessarily, mean
>>>"reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately
>>>questioning authority means to make those in positions
>>>of authority have to demonstrate, repeatedly, that they
>>>belong there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations or
>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell abotoir -
>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>
>>>Abattoir.
>>>
>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs
>>>frequently are run in ways that are inhumane. The
>>>problem is people want their chops and steaks cheap,
>>>and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>
>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar"
>>>types to be focusing on inhumane conditions in
>>>abattoirs. The places could be run according to the
>>>most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be
>>>shut down: we shouldn't be eating meat at all, in
>>>their view.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be shown to
>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent for
>>>>sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>
>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or
>>>apparently need, parents' permission for much of
>>>anything. That's one reason my child is not in the
>>>public (state) schools.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm trying to get my hands on the
>>>>video before deciding what to do next.
>>
>>
>> No doubt another redneck in the making?
>
>Nope - another critically thinking individual who
>rejects extremist bullshit. He's going to kick the
>shit out of you some day, georgie. Bank on it.

Ooh scary.

Just another day in the pro hunt nuts extremist diary of booze, drugs,
bestial orgies, animal sex and threats against society.

I wonder how long before you latch on to Al Qaeda as your ally for the
"Pro Hunt" nut protest against the world?

I wonder how you weirdo's got passed the system for so long, just as
well we have woken up to you now.

George wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:25:36 GMT, Leif Erikson
> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>
>
>>George wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:23:57 GMT, Leif Erikson
>>><pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse in
>>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals are
>>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is mostly
>>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing extremists
>>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools. It's
>>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to an
>>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them that
>>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they should
>>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but it
>>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to question
>>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority alright -
>>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit with
>>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of certain
>>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers are
>>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>>
>>>>I think the best course is to praise her for
>>>>independent thinking, but offer mild admonishments that
>>>>"question authority" does not, necessarily, mean
>>>>"reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately
>>>>questioning authority means to make those in positions
>>>>of authority have to demonstrate, repeatedly, that they
>>>>belong there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations or
>>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell abotoir -
>>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>>
>>>>Abattoir.
>>>>
>>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs
>>>>frequently are run in ways that are inhumane. The
>>>>problem is people want their chops and steaks cheap,
>>>>and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>>
>>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar"
>>>>types to be focusing on inhumane conditions in
>>>>abattoirs. The places could be run according to the
>>>>most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be
>>>>shut down: we shouldn't be eating meat at all, in
>>>>their view.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be shown to
>>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent for
>>>>>sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>>
>>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or
>>>>apparently need, parents' permission for much of
>>>>anything. That's one reason my child is not in the
>>>>public (state) schools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm trying to get my hands on the
>>>>>video before deciding what to do next.
>>>
>>>
>>>No doubt another redneck in the making?
>>
>>Nope - another critically thinking individual who
>>rejects extremist bullshit. He's going to kick the
>>shit out of you some day, georgie. Bank on it.
>
>
> Ooh scary.
>
> Just another day in

Just another day in your semi-literate extremist's
other-reality.

You're half-baked, georgie.

"George" <87rfguy4rgf [at] kjwerkhwir.com> wrote in message
news:o2su92p9alhn1l91ubm2c6j871g5uut4bg [at] 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:25:36 GMT, Leif Erikson
> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>
>>George wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 23:23:57 GMT, Leif Erikson
>>> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video
>>>>>>>she
>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal
>>>>>>>abuse in
>>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses
>>>>>>>(They
>>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an
>>>>>>>animal
>>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>>>mostly
>>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he
>>>>>>has
>>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>>>extremists
>>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the
>>>>>>other
>>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>>>It's
>>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the
>>>>>>bullshit.
>>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>>>an
>>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>>>should
>>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left,
>>>>>>but it
>>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>>>question
>>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>>>>alright -
>>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>>>>with
>>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>>>>certain
>>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>>>>are
>>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have
>>>>>to
>>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>>
>>>>I think the best course is to praise her for
>>>>independent thinking, but offer mild admonishments that
>>>>"question authority" does not, necessarily, mean
>>>>"reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately
>>>>questioning authority means to make those in positions
>>>>of authority have to demonstrate, repeatedly, that they
>>>>belong there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was
>>>>>quite
>>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own
>>>>>observations or
>>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>>>>abotoir -
>>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>>
>>>>Abattoir.
>>>>
>>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs
>>>>frequently are run in ways that are inhumane. The
>>>>problem is people want their chops and steaks cheap,
>>>>and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>>
>>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar"
>>>>types to be focusing on inhumane conditions in
>>>>abattoirs. The places could be run according to the
>>>>most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be
>>>>shut down: we shouldn't be eating meat at all, in
>>>>their view.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>>>>shown to
>>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>>>>for
>>>>>sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>>
>>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or
>>>>apparently need, parents' permission for much of
>>>>anything. That's one reason my child is not in the
>>>>public (state) schools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm trying to get my hands on the
>>>>>video before deciding what to do next.
>>>
>>>
>>> No doubt another redneck in the making?
>>
>>Nope - another critically thinking individual who
>>rejects extremist bullshit. He's going to kick the
>>shit out of you some day, georgie. Bank on it.
>
> Ooh scary.
>
> Just another day in the pro hunt nuts extremist diary of booze, drugs,
> bestial orgies, animal sex and threats against society.
>
> I wonder how long before you latch on to Al Qaeda as your ally for the
> "Pro Hunt" nut protest against the world?
>
> I wonder how you weirdo's got passed the system for so long, just as
> well we have woken up to you now.

Seek help, don't wait.

"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Billy Bullseye wrote:
>
>> "Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>> news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>had
>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>in
>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>eating.
>>>>
>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>footage
>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>the
>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>are
>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>
>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>
>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>mostly
>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>extremists
>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>
>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>It's
>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>
>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>an
>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>that
>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>should
>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>
>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>it
>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>question
>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>
>>
>> Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>> alright -
>> but not always for the correct reasons.
>>
>> She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>> with
>> the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>
>> I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>> certain
>> teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>> are
>> deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>> teach what they are told.
>
> I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
> offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
> mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
> authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
> demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>
>
>> With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>> shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>> or
>> what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>> abotoir -
>> abbatoir perhaps??)
>
> Abattoir.
>
> I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
> ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
> steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>
> It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
> focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
> according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
> peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
> shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>
>
>> the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>> of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>> shown to
>> children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>> for sex education but not for propaganda??
>
> Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
> permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
> the public (state) schools.
>
>

Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
rural living. Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
Commonwealth Games.

Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
schools.

Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.

>> I'm trying to get my hands on the video before deciding what to do next.
>>




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:19:32 +0100, "Michael Saunby"
<msaunby2 [at] despammed.com> wrote:

>
>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>
>>> "Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>> news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>had
>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>>in
>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>eating.
>>>>>
>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>footage
>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>the
>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>are
>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>
>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>mostly
>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>extremists
>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>
>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>It's
>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>
>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>an
>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>that
>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>should
>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>
>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>>it
>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>question
>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>> alright -
>>> but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>
>>> She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>> with
>>> the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>
>>> I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>> certain
>>> teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>> are
>>> deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>> teach what they are told.
>>
>> I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
>> offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
>> mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
>> authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
>> demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>>
>>
>>> With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>> shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>>> or
>>> what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>> abotoir -
>>> abbatoir perhaps??)
>>
>> Abattoir.
>>
>> I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
>> ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
>> steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>
>> It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
>> focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
>> according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>> peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
>> shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>>
>>
>>> the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>> of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>> shown to
>>> children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>> for sex education but not for propaganda??
>>
>> Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
>> permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
>> the public (state) schools.
>>
>>
>
>Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
>well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
>by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
>rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
>rural living.

No you're not and never was, you're a deluded fool.

School governor! LOL

Why does pro hunt and delusion go hand in hand?

> Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
>competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
>former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
>Commonwealth Games.
>
>Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
>if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
>schools.
>
>Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
>free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
>still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
>in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
>work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.

Plenty of illicit stills I bet?

George wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:19:32 +0100, "Michael Saunby"
> <msaunby2 [at] despammed.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>>had
>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>
>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>>mostly
>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>>extremists
>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>
>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>>It's
>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>
>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>>an
>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>>that
>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>>should
>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>
>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>>>it
>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>>question
>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>>>alright -
>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>
>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>>>with
>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>>>certain
>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>>>are
>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>
>>>I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
>>>offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
>>>mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
>>>authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
>>>demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>>>>or
>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>>>abotoir -
>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>
>>>Abattoir.
>>>
>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
>>>ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
>>>steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>
>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
>>>focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
>>>according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
>>>shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>>>shown to
>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>>>for sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>
>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
>>>permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
>>>the public (state) schools.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
>>well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
>>by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
>>rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
>>rural living.
>
>
> No you're not and never was,

"you...never was?" Did you go to school at all, you
fucking faineant poofter?


you're a deluded fool.
>
> School governor! LOL
>
> Why does pro hunt and delusion go hand in hand?
>
>
>> Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
>>competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
>>former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
>>Commonwealth Games.
>>
>>Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
>>if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
>>schools.
>>
>>Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
>>free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
>>still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
>>in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
>>work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.
>
>
> Plenty of illicit stills I bet?
>
>

Michael Saunby wrote:

> "Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
> news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>had
>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>>in
>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>eating.
>>>>>
>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>footage
>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>the
>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>are
>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>
>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>mostly
>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>extremists
>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>
>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>It's
>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>
>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>an
>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>that
>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>should
>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>
>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>>it
>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>question
>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>
>>>
>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>>alright -
>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>
>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>>with
>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>
>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>>certain
>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>>are
>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>teach what they are told.
>>
>>I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
>>offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
>>mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
>>authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
>>demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>>
>>
>>
>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>>>or
>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>>abotoir -
>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>
>>Abattoir.
>>
>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
>>ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
>>steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>
>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
>>focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
>>according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
>>shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>>
>>
>>
>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>>shown to
>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>>for sex education but not for propaganda??
>>
>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
>>permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
>>the public (state) schools.
>>
>>
>
>
> Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
> well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
> by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
> rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
> rural living.

Your health care system is worse than ours, but your
state schools are better. It all averages out.


> Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
> competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
> former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
> Commonwealth Games.

I don't know for certain, but I would imagine even
rural state schools would have trouble sponsoring any
kind of gun-related activity here in the states.

By the bye...why are privately owned and operated
schools called "public" schools over there? I'm aware
of the distinction between UK and US usage in this
matter, but not aware of the reason for it. Here in
the savage benighted States, "public" refers to state
ownership and provision, always: public schools,
public hospitals, public lands, etc. What you lot call
"public" schools are called private schools here. Most
are not-for-profit, but they are privately owned and
operated - no state oversight.


>
> Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
> if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
> schools.

Here, the communities control very little. Curriculum
and most other policy is set (in the public/state
schools) by the 50 states.


> Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
> free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
> still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
> in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
> work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.

Where are you? Help me find a computer programming /
systems analyst job there!


>>>I'm trying to get my hands on the video before deciding what to do next.
>>>
>
>
>
>
>

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:28:16 GMT, Leif Erikson
<pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:

>Michael Saunby wrote:
>
>> "Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>> news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>>had
>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>
>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>>mostly
>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>>extremists
>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>
>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>>It's
>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>
>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>>an
>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>>that
>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>>should
>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>
>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>>>it
>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>>question
>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>>>alright -
>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>
>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>>>with
>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>>>certain
>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>>>are
>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>
>>>I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
>>>offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
>>>mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
>>>authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
>>>demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>>>>or
>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>>>abotoir -
>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>
>>>Abattoir.
>>>
>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
>>>ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
>>>steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>
>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
>>>focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
>>>according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
>>>shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>>>shown to
>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>>>for sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>
>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
>>>permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
>>>the public (state) schools.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
>> well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
>> by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
>> rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
>> rural living.
>
>Your health care system is worse than ours, but your
>state schools are better. It all averages out.
>
>
>> Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
>> competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
>> former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
>> Commonwealth Games.
>
>I don't know for certain, but I would imagine even
>rural state schools would have trouble sponsoring any
>kind of gun-related activity here in the states.
>
>By the bye...why are privately owned and operated
>schools called "public" schools over there? I'm aware
>of the distinction between UK and US usage in this
>matter, but not aware of the reason for it. Here in
>the savage benighted States, "public" refers to state
>ownership and provision, always: public schools,
>public hospitals, public lands, etc. What you lot call
>"public" schools are called private schools here. Most
>are not-for-profit, but they are privately owned and
>operated - no state oversight.
>
>
>>
>> Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
>> if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
>> schools.
>
>Here, the communities control very little. Curriculum
>and most other policy is set (in the public/state
>schools) by the 50 states.
>
>
>> Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
>> free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
>> still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
>> in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
>> work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.
>
>Where are you? Help me find a computer programming /
>systems analyst job there!

I doubt you could find your way here, let alone use an abacus once you
arrive. Besides, you know you couldn't survive without MacDs.

George wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:28:16 GMT, Leif Erikson
> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Michael Saunby wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>>>mostly
>>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>>>extremists
>>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>>>It's
>>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>>>an
>>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>>>should
>>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>>>question
>>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>>>>alright -
>>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>>>>with
>>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>>>>certain
>>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>>>>are
>>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>>
>>>>I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
>>>>offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
>>>>mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
>>>>authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
>>>>demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>>>>>or
>>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>>>>abotoir -
>>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>>
>>>>Abattoir.
>>>>
>>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
>>>>ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
>>>>steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>>
>>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
>>>>focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
>>>>according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
>>>>shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>>>>shown to
>>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>>>>for sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>>
>>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
>>>>permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
>>>>the public (state) schools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
>>>well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
>>>by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
>>>rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
>>>rural living.
>>
>>Your health care system is worse than ours, but your
>>state schools are better. It all averages out.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
>>>competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
>>>former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
>>>Commonwealth Games.
>>
>>I don't know for certain, but I would imagine even
>>rural state schools would have trouble sponsoring any
>>kind of gun-related activity here in the states.
>>
>>By the bye...why are privately owned and operated
>>schools called "public" schools over there? I'm aware
>>of the distinction between UK and US usage in this
>>matter, but not aware of the reason for it. Here in
>>the savage benighted States, "public" refers to state
>>ownership and provision, always: public schools,
>>public hospitals, public lands, etc. What you lot call
>>"public" schools are called private schools here. Most
>>are not-for-profit, but they are privately owned and
>>operated - no state oversight.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
>>>if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
>>>schools.
>>
>>Here, the communities control very little. Curriculum
>>and most other policy is set (in the public/state
>>schools) by the 50 states.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
>>>free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
>>>still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
>>>in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
>>>work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.
>>
>>Where are you? Help me find a computer programming /
>>systems analyst job there!
>
>
> I doubt you could find your way here,

Been there already, poofter georgie - both north and south.


> let alone use an abacus once you
> arrive.

Programming computers, georgie - damned good at it,
too. You're good at wanking, nothing else - not a
claim to fame, you faggot.



> Besides, you know you couldn't survive without MacDs.

I don't eat the stuff. But I know it's there - I've
seen it.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:46:45 GMT, Leif Erikson
<pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:

>George wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:28:16 GMT, Leif Erikson
>> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Michael Saunby wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>>>>mostly
>>>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>>>>extremists
>>>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>>>>It's
>>>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>>>>should
>>>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>>>>question
>>>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>>>>>alright -
>>>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>>>>>certain
>>>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>>>>>are
>>>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
>>>>>offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
>>>>>mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
>>>>>authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
>>>>>demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>>>>>abotoir -
>>>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>>>
>>>>>Abattoir.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
>>>>>ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
>>>>>steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
>>>>>focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
>>>>>according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
>>>>>shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>>>>>shown to
>>>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>>>>>for sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>>>
>>>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
>>>>>permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
>>>>>the public (state) schools.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
>>>>well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
>>>>by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
>>>>rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
>>>>rural living.
>>>
>>>Your health care system is worse than ours, but your
>>>state schools are better. It all averages out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
>>>>competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
>>>>former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
>>>>Commonwealth Games.
>>>
>>>I don't know for certain, but I would imagine even
>>>rural state schools would have trouble sponsoring any
>>>kind of gun-related activity here in the states.
>>>
>>>By the bye...why are privately owned and operated
>>>schools called "public" schools over there? I'm aware
>>>of the distinction between UK and US usage in this
>>>matter, but not aware of the reason for it. Here in
>>>the savage benighted States, "public" refers to state
>>>ownership and provision, always: public schools,
>>>public hospitals, public lands, etc. What you lot call
>>>"public" schools are called private schools here. Most
>>>are not-for-profit, but they are privately owned and
>>>operated - no state oversight.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
>>>>if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
>>>>schools.
>>>
>>>Here, the communities control very little. Curriculum
>>>and most other policy is set (in the public/state
>>>schools) by the 50 states.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
>>>>free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
>>>>still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
>>>>in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
>>>>work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.
>>>
>>>Where are you? Help me find a computer programming /
>>>systems analyst job there!
>>
>>
>> I doubt you could find your way here,
>
>Been there already, poofter georgie - both north and south.

The Air Marshall would never let you on a plane.

>> let alone use an abacus once you
>> arrive.
>
>Programming computers, georgie - damned good at it,
>too.

Sure have us fooled.

> You're good at wanking, nothing else - not a
>claim to fame, you faggot.

It was one? Only in your weird mind.

>> Besides, you know you couldn't survive without MacDs.
>
>I don't eat the stuff. But I know it's there - I've
>seen it.

You don't get to weigh 300lb, go bald and limp without it. If you were
average height in proportion that would make you 450lb!

George wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:46:45 GMT, Leif Erikson
> <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>
>
>>George wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 06:28:16 GMT, Leif Erikson
>>><pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Michael Saunby wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:hWEng.2347$ii.1249 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:G0Dng.1199$NP4.704 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Billy Bullseye wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>My child came home recently telling me about an animal rights video she
>>>>>>>>>had
>>>>>>>>>been shown in Religious Education. It contained scenes of animal abuse
>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>slaughter houses and had the effect of putting other pupils off meat
>>>>>>>>>eating.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>As far as I can tell there was no attempt at balance - eg to show
>>>>>>>>>footage
>>>>>>>>>of happier events during the animals life or footage from a well run
>>>>>>>>>slaughter house or to point out that the animals would't have a life in
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>first place if it wasn't for meat eaters or to point out that animals
>>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>>normally treated humanely and compasionately in slaughter houses (They
>>>>>>>>>are aren't they??? - its a good while since I visited one)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Is this normal throughout Scottish Schools - or could we have an animal
>>>>>>>>>rights extremist in charge of the RE dept at the local school??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The schools are firmly in the grip of far-left crackpots. This is
>>>>>>>>mostly
>>>>>>>>true of state (public, in North America) schools, but it infects even
>>>>>>>>better public (private, N.A.) schools as well. "ar", and the moral
>>>>>>>>relativism and confusion of which it is evidence, are products of the
>>>>>>>>left. When someone tells you he is an "animal rights activist", he has
>>>>>>>>told you he is a far leftwing extremist. Not all far leftwing
>>>>>>>>extremists
>>>>>>>>are "aras", but all "aras" are far leftwing extremists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This kind of propaganda should come as no surprise, given all the other
>>>>>>>>far left bullshit spoon-fed to pupils in contemporary state schools.
>>>>>>>>It's
>>>>>>>>just one more in a long list of anti-western dogmas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For what it's worth, most pupils see right through most of the bullshit.
>>>>>>>>It's true that they do accept the underlying collectivist mentality to
>>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>>excessive degree, but a lot even eventually see through that, as well.
>>>>>>>>Most of this bullshit is not so overwhelming that good parenting can't
>>>>>>>>subvert it. You have to talk with your children and explain to them
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>the schools are full of self-appointed do-gooders, that these people
>>>>>>>>really have a malign view, and teach the youngsters that while they
>>>>>>>>should
>>>>>>>>be polite and attentive, they shouldn't believe everything - actually,
>>>>>>>>most of the things - they hear their teachers say.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The maxim "question authority" usually is associated with the left, but
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>now needs to be redirected *at* the left. Teach your children to
>>>>>>>>question
>>>>>>>>the authority of the state school propagandists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Most of the time there isn't a problem. She questions authority
>>>>>>>alright -
>>>>>>>but not always for the correct reasons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>She certainly doesn't believe all she is told and argues quite a bit
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>the teachers (and me), and is scornful of political correctness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't know whether to chide or praise her for lack of respect of
>>>>>>>certain
>>>>>>>teachers! I think she is quite good actually at knowing which teachers
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>deserving of respect - and plenty of them are but I suppose they have to
>>>>>>>teach what they are told.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think the best course is to praise her for independent thinking, but
>>>>>>offer mild admonishments that "question authority" does not, necessarily,
>>>>>>mean "reject authority". To me, the idea of legitimately questioning
>>>>>>authority means to make those in positions of authority have to
>>>>>>demonstrate, repeatedly, that they belong there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>With the ar video, - being visual it carries extra weight. She was quite
>>>>>>>shocked at first but realised it didn't concur with her own observations
>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>what she has heard of the slaughter house (I must learn to spell
>>>>>>>abotoir -
>>>>>>>abbatoir perhaps??)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Abattoir.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't think there's much doubt that abattoirs frequently are run in
>>>>>>ways that are inhumane. The problem is people want their chops and
>>>>>>steaks cheap, and maintaining humane standards is costly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's more than a little disingenuous, really, for "ar" types to be
>>>>>>focusing on inhumane conditions in abattoirs. The places could be run
>>>>>>according to the most stringent animal welfare standards, and the
>>>>>>peculiar logic of "ar" is that they still should be shut down: we
>>>>>>shouldn't be eating meat at all, in their view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the animals here go to. And of course video of any sort
>>>>>>>of death at all would be sad and disturbing and shouldn't really be
>>>>>>>shown to
>>>>>>>children, especially without parental consent. Why do they seek consent
>>>>>>>for sex education but not for propaganda??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here in the States, the schools don't seek, or apparently need, parents'
>>>>>>permission for much of anything. That's one reason my child is not in
>>>>>>the public (state) schools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work very
>>>>>well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school (selection
>>>>>by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local comprehensive and as a
>>>>>rural school we certainly try our best to encourage students to appreciate
>>>>>rural living.
>>>>
>>>>Your health care system is worse than ours, but your
>>>>state schools are better. It all averages out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of
>>>>>competition not normally associated with state schools. For example one
>>>>>former student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
>>>>>Commonwealth Games.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know for certain, but I would imagine even
>>>>rural state schools would have trouble sponsoring any
>>>>kind of gun-related activity here in the states.
>>>>
>>>>By the bye...why are privately owned and operated
>>>>schools called "public" schools over there? I'm aware
>>>>of the distinction between UK and US usage in this
>>>>matter, but not aware of the reason for it. Here in
>>>>the savage benighted States, "public" refers to state
>>>>ownership and provision, always: public schools,
>>>>public hospitals, public lands, etc. What you lot call
>>>>"public" schools are called private schools here. Most
>>>>are not-for-profit, but they are privately owned and
>>>>operated - no state oversight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college" and
>>>>>if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent community
>>>>>schools.
>>>>
>>>>Here, the communities control very little. Curriculum
>>>>and most other policy is set (in the public/state
>>>>schools) by the 50 states.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
>>>>>free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
>>>>>still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a community
>>>>>in which the young people are happy and well educated. It seems to
>>>>>work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a McDonalds.
>>>>
>>>>Where are you? Help me find a computer programming /
>>>>systems analyst job there!
>>>
>>>
>>>I doubt you could find your way here,
>>
>>Been there already, poofter georgie - both north and south.
>
>
> The Air Marshall would never let you on a plane.

Yes, absolutely he will.


>>>let alone use an abacus once you
>>>arrive.
>>
>>Programming computers, georgie - damned good at it,
>>too.
>
>
> Sure have us fooled.

You're easily fooled on about everything, georgie. But
I really am a good computer programmer. You're a
low-wage lout, of course.


>> You're good at wanking, nothing else - not a
>>claim to fame, you faggot.
>
>
> It was one?

No, georgie, it wasn't, so you're not famous at all.


>>>Besides, you know you couldn't survive without MacDs.
>>
>>I don't eat the stuff. But I know it's there - I've
>>seen it.
>
>
> You don't get to weigh 300lb,

I weigh less than half that.

"Leif Erikson" <pipes [at] thedismalscience.net> wrote in message
news:4e4og.13174$o4.11350 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Michael Saunby wrote:
>
.....
>>
>> Fair enough, but I believe the UK system of state education can work
>> very well. Ok, I had the benefit of attending a state grammar school
>> (selection by exams at 11), but I'm a governor at the local
>> comprehensive and as a rural school we certainly try our best to
>> encourage students to appreciate rural living.
>
> Your health care system is worse than ours, but your state schools are
> better. It all averages out.
>

Curiously for many years the present government have tried to persuade the
UK public that our national health service is the envy of the world. When
I encounter folks who believe them I ask why they think that no other
nation has bothered to copy it - after all many could afford to. Slowly
the truth is coming out, in part because of issues of pensions. We are
told we must retire later because we are living longer and this wasn't
expected - if it were are result of investment in NHS we'd have know about
it. It turns out we live longer, on average, because on average we smoke
less - as simple as that.

>
>> Many students hunt, fish etc. and do well in many types of competition
>> not normally associated with state schools. For example one former
>> student won a bronze medal in the women's air pistol shooting at the
>> Commonwealth Games.
>
> I don't know for certain, but I would imagine even rural state schools
> would have trouble sponsoring any kind of gun-related activity here in
> the states.
>

It's not sponsored, but it is celebrated - which is perhaps more important.

> By the bye...why are privately owned and operated schools called "public"
> schools over there? I'm aware

Not all are, only the very old ones established at a time when schools were
not open to all. More recent private schools are termed "independent".

> of the distinction between UK and US usage in this matter, but not aware
> of the reason for it. Here in the savage benighted States, "public"
> refers to state ownership and provision, always: public schools, public
> hospitals, public lands, etc. What you lot call

Whereas here we have "civil servants" or "servant of the crown" if we're
being posh.

> "public" schools are called private schools here. Most are
> not-for-profit, but they are privately owned and operated - no state
> oversight.
>

None?

>
>>
>> Though referred to as "state education" ours in a "community college"
>> and if a community puts in the effort it can still build excellent
>> community schools.
>
> Here, the communities control very little. Curriculum and most other
> policy is set (in the public/state schools) by the 50 states.
>

Curriculum is set by the govt, but the governors choose the head teacher
and deal with fnancial matters and aspects of strategy.

>
>> Of course many parents will regard a state school as nothing more than a
>> free childcare service. However I believe the children of such parents
>> still deserve a decent education, and anyway we all benefit in a
>> community in which the young people are happy and well educated. It
>> seems to work - there's still no vegetarian restaurant here, or a
>> McDonalds.
>
> Where are you? Help me find a computer programming / systems analyst job
> there!
>

Hopefully you got the email - we have one vacancy at present.

>
>>>>I'm trying to get my hands on the video before deciding what to do
>>>>next.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com