Bonsai , Japanese Miniature Trees :- Their Style Cultivation & styling
by Kan Yashiroda
Really thorough vintage manual on the craft , covers just about
everything.

Some headings:- Classification of shape of trunk / Classification of
style of growing / Technique of dwarfing / Raisnig bonsai from seeds &
cuttings / Mame bonsai /Bonsai cultivation of crysanthemums etc.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=697 5692237&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

JaneyP wrote:
> Bonsai , Japanese Miniature Trees :- Their Style Cultivation & styling
> by Kan Yashiroda
> Really thorough vintage manual on the craft , covers just about
> everything.
>
> Some headings:- Classification of shape of trunk / Classification of
> style of growing / Technique of dwarfing / Raisnig bonsai from seeds &
> cuttings / Mame bonsai /Bonsai cultivation of crysanthemums etc.
>

This is SPAM.

Jim Lewis - jklewis [at] nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

In article <431F7C82.7050001 [at] nettally.com>,
jklewis [at] NETTALLY.COM (Jim Lewis) wrote:

> JaneyP wrote:
> > Bonsai , Japanese Miniature Trees :- Their Style Cultivation & styling
> > by Kan Yashiroda
> > Really thorough vintage manual on the craft , covers just about
> > everything.
> >
> > Some headings:- Classification of shape of trunk / Classification of
> > style of growing / Technique of dwarfing / Raisnig bonsai from seeds &
> > cuttings / Mame bonsai /Bonsai cultivation of crysanthemums etc.
> >
>
> This is SPAM.

No, it isn't.

A for-sale or for-auction message is not spam unless the merchandise is
off-topic for the group, or the message violates the group's written rules,
or it is sent to individuals (not a list) without their permission.

JaneyP is selling a bonsai-related book. She posted her message only once.
The rec.arts.bonsai newsgroup (where she posted) and the IBC mailing list
(from which you replied) do not have any written rules against for-sale
messages. Therefore her message is not spam.

The IBC list's Welcome message says "Spam is mail sent to the list by
people trying to sell something that isn't bonsai related". Note those
last four words. That message makes no other mention of "for-sale"
messages, which implies that it's okay to try to sell bonsai-related stuff.

The IBC web forum has a "no for-sale posts" rule, but that only applies to
the web forum, not the mailing list or the newsgroup.

Wayne C. Morris wrote:
> In article <431F7C82.7050001 [at] nettally.com>,
> jklewis [at] NETTALLY.COM (Jim Lewis) wrote:
>
>
>>JaneyP wrote:
>>
>>>Bonsai , Japanese Miniature Trees :- Their Style Cultivation & styling
>>>by Kan Yashiroda
>>>Really thorough vintage manual on the craft , covers just about
>>>everything.
>>>
>>>Some headings:- Classification of shape of trunk / Classification of
>>>style of growing / Technique of dwarfing / Raisnig bonsai from seeds &
>>>cuttings / Mame bonsai /Bonsai cultivation of crysanthemums etc.
>>>
>>
>>This is SPAM.
>
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> A for-sale or for-auction message is not spam unless the merchandise is
> off-topic for the group, or the message violates the group's written rules,
> or it is sent to individuals (not a list) without their permission.
>
> JaneyP is selling a bonsai-related book. She posted her message only once.
> The rec.arts.bonsai newsgroup (where she posted) and the IBC mailing list
> (from which you replied) do not have any written rules against for-sale
> messages. Therefore her message is not spam.
>
> The IBC list's Welcome message says "Spam is mail sent to the list by
> people trying to sell something that isn't bonsai related". Note those
> last four words. That message makes no other mention of "for-sale"
> messages, which implies that it's okay to try to sell bonsai-related stuff.
>
> The IBC web forum has a "no for-sale posts" rule, but that only applies to
> the web forum, not the mailing list or the newsgroup.
>


God. You must be a damned lawyer. Even so, AFIK *no one*
has appointed you to represent the IBC. Particularly since
you are one of those really, really nice guys who bollix up
their return address so one one can reply privately to you
-- which I would have much preferred to do.

The IBC (list and news group) (and I as a member) pre-date
E-bay by 10 years or more. Ever since E-bay cranked up we
have had Non-regulars "drop by" to post news of the
wunnerful "stuff" they have for sale, and we have at _every_
instance responded with a notice that this is not appropriate.

I suppose we MIGHT make an exception if someone who had made
a contribution here from time to time happened to have
something for sale, but that certainly isn't the case here.
JaneyP is a total stranger, and I'd bet we'll never hear
of or from her again -- unless she has _another_ wunnerful
book to sell. She probably is a dealer.

We have iterated and re-iterated here that we will NOT open
the floodgates to every jerk and yahoo who happens to have a
plant, a pot, (or a book) for sale on any one of the auction
sites.

If you insist that the welcome message be changed (you
probably are the only person other than me -- and I wrote
it! -- who has ever read it) that certainly can be done.

Jim Lewis - jklewis [at] nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL

************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

In article <4320C63F.5070906 [at] nettally.com>,
jklewis [at] NETTALLY.COM (Jim Lewis) wrote:

> God. You must be a damned lawyer.

Hell, no. I just know the difference between for-sale/auction and spam.
I subscribe to a bunch of newsgroups where on-topic FS/FA posts are welcome
and spam is not. In a few groups where FS/FA posts aren't allowed, it says
so in the group's FAQ, which is usually posted every 1-2 weeks.


> you are one of those really, really nice guys who bollix up
> their return address so one one can reply privately to you
> -- which I would have much preferred to do.

I "bollix up my return address" precisely because I don't want private
replies. If someone wants to send me a message that isn't appropriate
subject matter for the newsgroup, I'm not interested in reading it.


> The IBC (list and news group) (and I as a member) pre-date
> E-bay by 10 years or more. Ever since E-bay cranked up we
> have had Non-regulars "drop by" to post news of the
> wunnerful "stuff" they have for sale, and we have at _every_
> instance responded with a notice that this is not appropriate.

"Every instance"?

The last time anyone here objected to an FS/FA post was a year ago. Since
then, there have been 5 more bonsai-related for-sale posts (not counting
this latest one), none of which garnered any complaints or objections --
not publicly, anyway. Anybody who had been reading the newsgroup for those
11.5 months would have concluded that bonsai-related FS/FA posts are rare
but acceptable here.

(I didn't count the real spam. Spam isn't welcome anywhere, but spammers
don't give a damn about rules, and they never stick around long enough to
read *any* messages, much less the complaints about their own posts.)

There have been a few lengthy threads here discussing the spam problem,
during brief peaks in the amount of spam. But at no point in those threads
did anyone ever say bonsai-related FS/FA posts are inappropriate.


> We have iterated and re-iterated here that we will NOT open
> the floodgates to every jerk and yahoo who happens to have a
> plant, a pot, (or a book) for sale on any one of the auction
> sites.

Then people have gotten pretty lax about re-iterating it in the past year,
since nobody ever complained about the 5 bonsai-related FS/FA posts during
that time.

As for "opening the floodgates", I think you're greatly overestimating the
potential bonsai-related FS/FA traffic. I'm a longtime regular In another
group with 4 times the traffic of this one, and which encourages on-topic
FS/FA posts, but that group gets an average of less than 2 such posts per
day -- hardly what I'd call a flood!


> If you insist that the welcome message be changed

Only if you insist on enforcing a "no bonsai-related for-sale/auction
posts" rule. If you want people to obey a set of rules, it's up to you to
ensure that newcomers can read those rules. Waiting until they've broken a
rule before telling them about it is a waste of everyone's time.

Futhermore, if you ever want to complain to an ISP about one of their users
breaking the rules, you'll need to be able to show that the group *does*
have rules, and not just "guidelines". I've seen one case where a
newsgroup's rules were posted only in something titled "Unofficial FAQ", so
an ISP concluded that their user hadn't broken any *official* rules.

If you do write up a set of rules for the newsgroup & mailing list, I think
it ought to be presented for discussion & voting, just in case the current
subscribers don't agree with whatever the consensus was years ago. (The
owners of the mailing list can impose any rules they like on the list, but
an unmoderated newsgroup cannot be controlled by any one person, not even
the person who created it.)

It'd also be nice to incorporate the rules into a properly formatted FAQ,
and cross-posted to rec.answers and news.answers so that it'd be available
on all the FAQ archive web sites like www.faq.org. Details on how to do
it, including ways to have it auto-posted regularly, can be found at
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/news-answers/guidelines/>.

Wayne C. Morris wrote:
> In article <4320C63F.5070906 [at] nettally.com>,
> jklewis [at] NETTALLY.COM (Jim Lewis) wrote:

snip

>
>>you are one of those really, really nice guys who bollix up
>>their return address so one one can reply privately to you
>>-- which I would have much preferred to do.
>
>
> I "bollix up my return address" precisely because I don't want private
> replies. If someone wants to send me a message that isn't appropriate
> subject matter for the newsgroup, I'm not interested in reading it.
>

EXACTLY what I meant. And if you hadn't done that, all this
crap wouldn't have to end up in our archives -- which cost
us money.

>
>
>>The IBC (list and news group) (and I as a member) pre-date
>>E-bay by 10 years or more. Ever since E-bay cranked up we
>>have had Non-regulars "drop by" to post news of the
>>wunnerful "stuff" they have for sale, and we have at _every_
>>instance responded with a notice that this is not appropriate.
>
>
> "Every instance"?

Surely, if _I_ saw them.

>
> The last time anyone here objected to an FS/FA post was a year ago. Since
> then, there have been 5 more bonsai-related for-sale posts (not counting
> this latest one), none of which garnered any complaints or objections --
> not publicly, anyway. Anybody who had been reading the newsgroup for those
> 11.5 months would have concluded that bonsai-related FS/FA posts are rare
> but acceptable here.

You _count_ these things? My, my.


>
> (I didn't count the real spam. Spam isn't welcome anywhere, but spammers
> don't give a damn about rules, and they never stick around long enough to
> read *any* messages, much less the complaints about their own posts.)
>
> There have been a few lengthy threads here discussing the spam problem,
> during brief peaks in the amount of spam. But at no point in those threads
> did anyone ever say bonsai-related FS/FA posts are inappropriate.
>
>
Probably because none of the spam was "bonsai related." As
I believe I said, we may allow one-time posts by regular
members who have excess "stuff" to get rid of. 99.999% of
the time, they have the courtesy to ask me or Shelly (or
even the list itself) BEFORE they post. Most of the time
we'd say OK -- once.

This person was not a regular. She was, I suspect, the
owner of a bookstore (ONE book listed, and NOT a book that a
dabbler would have picked up to get started in bonsai --
though it is a good book) who happened to find a bonsai book
in her possession. I have had -- and discouraged -- many
requests from dealers.


>
>>We have iterated and re-iterated here that we will NOT open
>>the floodgates to every jerk and yahoo who happens to have a
>>plant, a pot, (or a book) for sale on any one of the auction
>>sites.
>

>
> As for "opening the floodgates", I think you're greatly overestimating the
> potential bonsai-related FS/FA traffic. I'm a longtime regular In another
> group with 4 times the traffic of this one, and which encourages on-topic
> FS/FA posts, but that group gets an average of less than 2 such posts per
> day -- hardly what I'd call a flood!

Scarcely relevant, but . . .

>
>
>
>>If you insist that the welcome message be changed
>
>
> Only if you insist on enforcing a "no bonsai-related for-sale/auction
> posts" rule. If you want people to obey a set of rules, it's up to you to
> ensure that newcomers can read those rules. Waiting until they've broken a
> rule before telling them about it is a waste of everyone's time.

Good point.

>
> Futhermore, if you ever want to complain to an ISP about one of their users
> breaking the rules, you'll need to be able to show that the group *does*
> have rules, and not just "guidelines". I've seen one case where a
> newsgroup's rules were posted only in something titled "Unofficial FAQ", so
> an ISP concluded that their user hadn't broken any *official* rules.

It's not that important to natter to an ISP on this kind of
issue. MOST people like this one stop when asked. Real
spammers don't (and usually bollix up THEIR addresses, too,
so it's not worth backtracking.

>
> If you do write up a set of rules for the newsgroup & mailing list, I think
> it ought to be presented for discussion & voting, just in case the current
> subscribers don't agree with whatever the consensus was years ago. (The
> owners of the mailing list can impose any rules they like on the list, but
> an unmoderated newsgroup cannot be controlled by any one person, not even
> the person who created it.)

Well, in a way, we can since RAB gets the mailing list posts
SOLELY because we decided that would be a good thing to do.

>
> It'd also be nice to incorporate the rules into a properly formatted FAQ,
> and cross-posted to rec.answers and news.answers so that it'd be available
> on all the FAQ archive web sites like www.faq.org. Details on how to do
> it, including ways to have it auto-posted regularly, can be found at
> <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/news-answers/guidelines/>.
>

Not worth it. Usenet and mailing lists' days are numbered
-- much as I dislike the thought.

Jim Lewis - jklewis [at] nettally.com - Who has said what he has
to say on this.

************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Hi folks,

I would really like this discussion to END NOW.

Wayne - We DO have rules. <that's a period>

I don't feel the need to post them every two weeks. Right now, I don't even
know what you posted that got this reply, but the "Group" knows our rules.
I see below you think a -vote- on rules is in order. IT ISN'T. Don't like
the rules, okay, don't bother us.

Regards
Shelly Hurd - List Owner.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne C. Morris" <wayne.morris [at] THIS.IS.INVALID>
To: <BONSAI [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [IBC] SPAM SPAM SPAM Bonsai Japanese Miniature Trees Yashiroda
FS


> In article <4320C63F.5070906 [at] nettally.com>,
> jklewis [at] NETTALLY.COM (Jim Lewis) wrote:
>
> > God. You must be a damned lawyer.
>
> Hell, no. I just know the difference between for-sale/auction and spam.
> I subscribe to a bunch of newsgroups where on-topic FS/FA posts are
welcome
> and spam is not. In a few groups where FS/FA posts aren't allowed, it
says
> so in the group's FAQ, which is usually posted every 1-2 weeks.
>
>
> > you are one of those really, really nice guys who bollix up
> > their return address so one one can reply privately to you
> > -- which I would have much preferred to do.
>
> I "bollix up my return address" precisely because I don't want private
> replies. If someone wants to send me a message that isn't appropriate
> subject matter for the newsgroup, I'm not interested in reading it.
>
>
> > The IBC (list and news group) (and I as a member) pre-date
> > E-bay by 10 years or more. Ever since E-bay cranked up we
> > have had Non-regulars "drop by" to post news of the
> > wunnerful "stuff" they have for sale, and we have at _every_
> > instance responded with a notice that this is not appropriate.
>
> "Every instance"?
>
> The last time anyone here objected to an FS/FA post was a year ago. Since
> then, there have been 5 more bonsai-related for-sale posts (not counting
> this latest one), none of which garnered any complaints or objections --
> not publicly, anyway. Anybody who had been reading the newsgroup for
those
> 11.5 months would have concluded that bonsai-related FS/FA posts are rare
> but acceptable here.
>
> (I didn't count the real spam. Spam isn't welcome anywhere, but spammers
> don't give a damn about rules, and they never stick around long enough to
> read *any* messages, much less the complaints about their own posts.)
>
> There have been a few lengthy threads here discussing the spam problem,
> during brief peaks in the amount of spam. But at no point in those
threads
> did anyone ever say bonsai-related FS/FA posts are inappropriate.
>
>
> > We have iterated and re-iterated here that we will NOT open
> > the floodgates to every jerk and yahoo who happens to have a
> > plant, a pot, (or a book) for sale on any one of the auction
> > sites.
>
> Then people have gotten pretty lax about re-iterating it in the past year,
> since nobody ever complained about the 5 bonsai-related FS/FA posts during
> that time.
>
> As for "opening the floodgates", I think you're greatly overestimating the
> potential bonsai-related FS/FA traffic. I'm a longtime regular In another
> group with 4 times the traffic of this one, and which encourages on-topic
> FS/FA posts, but that group gets an average of less than 2 such posts per
> day -- hardly what I'd call a flood!
>
>
> > If you insist that the welcome message be changed
>
> Only if you insist on enforcing a "no bonsai-related for-sale/auction
> posts" rule. If you want people to obey a set of rules, it's up to you to
> ensure that newcomers can read those rules. Waiting until they've broken
a
> rule before telling them about it is a waste of everyone's time.
>
> Futhermore, if you ever want to complain to an ISP about one of their
users
> breaking the rules, you'll need to be able to show that the group *does*
> have rules, and not just "guidelines". I've seen one case where a
> newsgroup's rules were posted only in something titled "Unofficial FAQ",
so
> an ISP concluded that their user hadn't broken any *official* rules.
>
> If you do write up a set of rules for the newsgroup & mailing list, I
think
> it ought to be presented for discussion & voting, just in case the current
> subscribers don't agree with whatever the consensus was years ago. (The
> owners of the mailing list can impose any rules they like on the list, but
> an unmoderated newsgroup cannot be controlled by any one person, not even
> the person who created it.)
>
> It'd also be nice to incorporate the rules into a properly formatted FAQ,
> and cross-posted to rec.answers and news.answers so that it'd be available
> on all the FAQ archive web sites like www.faq.org. Details on how to do
> it, including ways to have it auto-posted regularly, can be found at
> <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/news-answers/guidelines/>.
>
>

************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Wayne,

Now I've looked and see what caused this.

It is SPAM.

It's Spam because members to the list have the courtesy to ask ME if I mind
a particular post offering items for sale. Besides that, it's obvious.

If you have a problem with MY opinion, post direct to me. My address is at
least real.
Regards,
Shelly Hurd - List Owner.

----- Original Message -----

Subject: Re: [IBC] SPAM SPAM SPAM Bonsai Japanese Miniature Trees Yashiroda
FS


> JaneyP wrote:
> > Bonsai , Japanese Miniature Trees :- Their Style Cultivation & styling
> > by Kan Yashiroda
> > Really thorough vintage manual on the craft , covers just about
> > everything.
> >
> > Some headings:- Classification of shape of trunk / Classification of
> > style of growing / Technique of dwarfing / Raisnig bonsai from seeds &
> > cuttings / Mame bonsai /Bonsai cultivation of crysanthemums etc.
> >
>
> This is SPAM.
>

************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Shelly: Wayne was not the originator of the spam. He just had
some legitimate questions about the way it was handled and about
what the rules are and whether they were being enforced equally
or randomly. Wayne posed logical questions and was called names
(directly "lawyer" and indirectly "jerk and yahoo") and had his
integrity questioned for doing so.
Of course, not all of Wayne's suggestions are practical,
but I think they should have been accorded the same respect that
any of us would hope to be shown when we participate here.
Frankly, I think we would have probably been spared all
this exchange, if Jim had just contacted the sender and/or
blocked them from the list rather than sending his urgent SPAM
SPAM SPAM response which only drew more attention to it. But
that's all 20/20 hindsight and Monday morning quarterbacking!
By the way, I fully agree that people should accord the
courtesy of giving a legitimate address, but I also understand
that others will have divergent opinions on this for whatever
reasons. C'est la guerre!
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: I Shelly Hurd

Hi folks,
I would really like this discussion to END NOW.
Wayne - We DO have rules. <that's a period>

I don't feel the need to post them every two weeks. Right now, I
don't even know what you posted that got this reply, but the
"Group" knows our rules. I see below you think a -vote- on rules
is in order. IT ISN'T. Don't like the rules, okay, don't bother
us.
Regards
Shelly Hurd - List Owner.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne C. Morris" <wayne.morris [at] THIS.IS.INVALID>

> In article <4320C63F.5070906 [at] nettally.com>,
> jklewis [at] NETTALLY.COM (Jim Lewis) wrote:

> > God. You must be a damned lawyer.

Hell, no. I just know the difference between for-sale/auction
and spam.
I subscribe to a bunch of newsgroups where on-topic FS/FA posts
are
welcome and spam is not. In a few groups where FS/FA posts
aren't allowed, it says so in the group's FAQ, which is usually
posted every 1-2 weeks.

> > you are one of those really, really nice guys who bollix up
> > their return address so one one can reply privately to you
> > -- which I would have much preferred to do.

I "bollix up my return address" precisely because I don't want
private replies. If someone wants to send me a message that
isn't appropriate subject matter for the newsgroup, I'm not
interested in reading it.

> > The IBC (list and news group) (and I as a member) pre-date
> > E-bay by 10 years or more. Ever since E-bay cranked up we
> > have had Non-regulars "drop by" to post news of the
> > wunnerful "stuff" they have for sale, and we have at _every_
> > instance responded with a notice that this is not
appropriate.

"Every instance"?
The last time anyone here objected to an FS/FA post was a year
ago. Since then, there have been 5 more bonsai-related for-sale
posts (not counting this latest one), none of which garnered any
complaints or objections -- not publicly, anyway. Anybody who
had been reading the newsgroup for those 11.5 months would have
concluded that bonsai-related FS/FA posts are rare but acceptable
here.

(I didn't count the real spam. Spam isn't welcome anywhere, but
spammers don't give a damn about rules, and they never stick
around long enough to read *any* messages, much less the
complaints about their own posts.)

There have been a few lengthy threads here discussing the spam
problem, during brief peaks in the amount of spam. But at no
point in those threads did anyone ever say bonsai-related FS/FA
posts are inappropriate.

> > We have iterated and re-iterated here that we will NOT open
> > the floodgates to every jerk and yahoo who happens to have a
> > plant, a pot, (or a book) for sale on any one of the auction
> > sites.

Then people have gotten pretty lax about re-iterating it in the
past year, since nobody ever complained about the 5
bonsai-related FS/FA posts during that time. As for "opening the
floodgates", I think you're greatly overestimating the potential
bonsai-related FS/FA traffic. I'm a longtime regular In another
group with 4 times the traffic of this one, and which encourages
on-topic FS/FA posts, but that group gets an average of less than
2 such posts per day -- hardly what I'd call a flood!

> > If you insist that the welcome message be changed

Only if you insist on enforcing a "no bonsai-related
for-sale/auction posts" rule. If you want people to obey a set
of rules, it's up to you to ensure that newcomers can read those
rules. Waiting until they've broken
a rule before telling them about it is a waste of everyone's
time.

Futhermore, if you ever want to complain to an ISP about one of
their
users breaking the rules, you'll need to be able to show that the
group *does* have rules, and not just "guidelines". I've seen
one case where a newsgroup's rules were posted only in something
titled "Unofficial FAQ",
so an ISP concluded that their user hadn't broken any *official*
rules.

If you do write up a set of rules for the newsgroup & mailing
list, I
think it ought to be presented for discussion & voting, just in
case the current subscribers don't agree with whatever the
consensus was years ago. (The owners of the mailing list can
impose any rules they like on the list, but an unmoderated
newsgroup cannot be controlled by any one person, not even the
person who created it.)

It'd also be nice to incorporate the rules into a properly
formatted FAQ, and cross-posted to rec.answers and news.answers
so that it'd be available on all the FAQ archive web sites like
www.faq.org. Details on how to do it, including ways to have it
auto-posted regularly, can be found at
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/news-answers/guidelines/>.

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