I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in
August.

I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a
half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after
the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern
(micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment,
and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth. The
plant itself is a modest size with only half a dozen beautifully
patterned leaves.

The tag on the phrag is very hard to read, but it looks like Phrag Mam
Dick Clements. It does not seem to like this culture. It has two new
growths that appear to be happy, but all but two of the leaves from the
old growth are brown, and one of the remaining two appears to be on its
way out. From the old growth, only one leaf is a healthy green color.

This phrag is clearly trying to grow out of its pot, with the growth
that had bloomed being about 1 cm above the substrate (looks like
either bark or small coconut chips), and the two new growths about 1 cn
higher than that still.

It is my understanding that this plant had won an award n previous
years, but the only trace of anything older that the growth that
produced this year's bloom is a little stub that clearly had its leaves
cut off once the leaves turned brown, at a height of about 3 cm, before
I bought it. It had clearly bloomed at least once before.

So, what is happening? With the same treatment, which I was told by
the vendour to provide, the paph is obviously happy, with no sign if
death anywhere, but the phrag does not look happy. Is the phrag really
dying, or is what I am seeing normal?

Thanks,

Ted


R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making

Ted wrote:
> I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in
> August.
>
> I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a
> half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after
> the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern
> (micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment,
> and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth. The
> plant itself is a modest size with only half a dozen beautifully
> patterned leaves.
>
> The tag on the phrag is very hard to read, but it looks like Phrag Mam
> Dick Clements. It does not seem to like this culture. It has two new
> growths that appear to be happy, but all but two of the leaves from the
> old growth are brown, and one of the remaining two appears to be on its
> way out. From the old growth, only one leaf is a healthy green color.
>
> This phrag is clearly trying to grow out of its pot, with the growth
> that had bloomed being about 1 cm above the substrate (looks like
> either bark or small coconut chips), and the two new growths about 1 cn
> higher than that still.
>

And here I would have thought the opposite would have happened. I would
never leave a Magic Lantern standing in water. But, if it is working
for you, don't stop. I would worry that as the mix breaks down, this
will stay too wet. If it were my plant, I'd lose the saucer, or at
least dump out the saucer immediately after watering. And water the
plant using the 'finger' test. If it feels soggy, don't. If it is
starting to approach dryness, do.

Phrags tend to climb, which is what you are seeing with the MDC. In
general, phrags are supposed to like to be kept wetter than paphs. In
practice, you can usually treat them pretty much the same. A lot of
people grow phrags sitting in saucers of water. Different people have
different approaches to dealing with climbing. If the rhizome is long
enough, and a bit flexible, you can pin the new growth down with a bent
piece of wire. If not, you can repot the plant, and set the base of the
newest growths at 'ground level', burying the oldest growth a bit. Or
put the plant into the pot at an angle (leaning). If it isn't due for
repotting, you could put a little sphagnum moss around the base of the
plant, to encourage new root growth.

I wouldn't worry too much about the oldest growth losing leaves, if the
new ones appear happy. Phrags do that. It might be a sign that the
plant needs repotting. This is a pretty good time of year to repot
phrags, might as well.

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Its OK for the old growths to die back. They flower and die. As long as
the new growths like your culture, grow to the same size or larger then you
are OK. The 'standing in water' trick is pretty standard for Phrag culture.
I don't use it personally, but thousands of people swear by it.

Its the growth habit for many besseae hybrids to climb out of their pot.
Not much you can do about that.

BTW its Phrag Memoria Dick Clements (Mem.) Many awards on this cross. I'm
glad you have one of them

K Barrett

"Ted" <r.ted.byers [at] rogers.com> wrote in message
news:1127401340.564853.266160 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in
> August.
>
> I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a
> half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after
> the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern
> (micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment,
> and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth. The
> plant itself is a modest size with only half a dozen beautifully
> patterned leaves.
>
> The tag on the phrag is very hard to read, but it looks like Phrag Mam
> Dick Clements. It does not seem to like this culture. It has two new
> growths that appear to be happy, but all but two of the leaves from the
> old growth are brown, and one of the remaining two appears to be on its
> way out. From the old growth, only one leaf is a healthy green color.
>
> This phrag is clearly trying to grow out of its pot, with the growth
> that had bloomed being about 1 cm above the substrate (looks like
> either bark or small coconut chips), and the two new growths about 1 cn
> higher than that still.
>
> It is my understanding that this plant had won an award n previous
> years, but the only trace of anything older that the growth that
> produced this year's bloom is a little stub that clearly had its leaves
> cut off once the leaves turned brown, at a height of about 3 cm, before
> I bought it. It had clearly bloomed at least once before.
>
> So, what is happening? With the same treatment, which I was told by
> the vendour to provide, the paph is obviously happy, with no sign if
> death anywhere, but the phrag does not look happy. Is the phrag really
> dying, or is what I am seeing normal?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ted
>
>
> R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
> R & D Decision Support Solutions
> http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
> Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making
>

Ted, let me add to the other 2 replies I see so far.

In spite of what you see, you probably have less problems with the Phrag
and more problems with the Paph than you think. What the Phrag is doing
isn't all that far from normal. A really happy Phrag will keep most of
the old leaves as the new growths develop but it not uncommon for the
old growth to decline.
If you've been leaving the Paph. Magic Lantern standing in water,
there's an excellent chance that you have rotted all the roots in the
bottom of the pot. Maybe higher up too. A paph that has lost ALL of its
roots will will sit there looking normal for a long time and it will
start new growths too. Pull that plant out of its pot and see what the
roots are doing. If you find soft roots in the bottom of the pot, I
would clean off all the old medium and pull off all the roots that are
dead. Repot the thing and do not let it sit in water again.

Steve



Ted wrote:
> I bought a paph and a phrag last spring. Both stopped blooming in
> August.
>
> I was told to water them so that the pot is left standing in about a
> half centimetre of water, and then not water again until the day after
> the standing water had disappeared. The paph, Paph. Magic Lantern
> (micranthum x delenatii), appears to be very happy with this treatment,
> and has, within the past month, produced a nice little new growth......
> ............
>..........................
> So, what is happening? With the same treatment, which I was told by
> the vendour to provide, the paph is obviously happy, with no sign if
> death anywhere, but the phrag does not look happy. Is the phrag really
> dying, or is what I am seeing normal?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ted
>
>
> R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
> R & D Decision Support Solutions
> http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
> Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making
>

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:53:32 -0400, Steve <tlswilso [at] aol.com>
wrote:
> Pull that plant out of its pot and see what the
>roots are doing. If you find soft roots in the bottom of the pot, I
>would clean off all the old medium and pull off all the roots that are
>dead. Repot the thing and do not let it sit in water again.
>
>Steve
>
I will add to all the advise by suggesting Semi hydro culture for
both plants. It will guarantee the air to the roots, no rotting
medium, and the water if they want it. You can read more about
it at First Ray's website. We use it for all the Phrags which
just love it and any of the Paphs over seedling size. Much
easier to miss a water day too. You can see the reservoir and
know if the plant has access to water.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Thanks all (Rob, K Barrett, Steve and Sue),

This is greatly appreciated. Both are due for repotting, and I will be
going to an orchid show in Cambridge Ontario, so I can pick up some
medium there.

It looks like they are both presently in very small coconut husk chips.
The phrag is in a 7.5 cm plastic pot and the paph is in a 5 cm pot,
both about 10 cm tall. I do notice that water appears in the saucer
the very moment I start watering, in contrast to even my very happy
catts; but then they're in larger pots so it takes a few seconds for
water to appear out the bottom once I start watering. I could be wrong
but that suggests that there is plenty of pore space within the medium
to allow the roots free access to air. Even coarse sand doesn't let
water move through it that fast.

I want to try semihydro, and there are suppliers of the right supplies
to do it. I just haven't had the time to go and get the needed
supplies. And I am a bit concerned about the potential for mortality
since I understand the old roots would be history and the new ones will
take time to grow. I'll read up on it on Ray's site, again, and see
just how significant the risk is.

Thanks again,

Ted


R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making

Ted,

I think you'd find that both paphs and phrags take to S/H culture really
well, with little or no root loss.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Ted" <r.ted.byers [at] rogers.com> wrote in message
news:1127575141.874960.17060 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks all (Rob, K Barrett, Steve and Sue),
>
> This is greatly appreciated. Both are due for repotting, and I will be
> going to an orchid show in Cambridge Ontario, so I can pick up some
> medium there.
>
> It looks like they are both presently in very small coconut husk chips.
> The phrag is in a 7.5 cm plastic pot and the paph is in a 5 cm pot,
> both about 10 cm tall. I do notice that water appears in the saucer
> the very moment I start watering, in contrast to even my very happy
> catts; but then they're in larger pots so it takes a few seconds for
> water to appear out the bottom once I start watering. I could be wrong
> but that suggests that there is plenty of pore space within the medium
> to allow the roots free access to air. Even coarse sand doesn't let
> water move through it that fast.
>
> I want to try semihydro, and there are suppliers of the right supplies
> to do it. I just haven't had the time to go and get the needed
> supplies. And I am a bit concerned about the potential for mortality
> since I understand the old roots would be history and the new ones will
> take time to grow. I'll read up on it on Ray's site, again, and see
> just how significant the risk is.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ted
>
>
> R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
> R & D Decision Support Solutions
> http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
> Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making
>

Thanks Ray,

I'll repot them in semihydro and see what happens. In fact, if you
look at one of my other posts, you'll see I have an issue with a Zga
hybrid. Apparently Zygopetalum likes it wet, but not to sit in
standing water, so I'll put it into semihydro once the bloom fades, and
see how it does.

I am hoping to find the transparent pots and PrimeAgra at the COOS show
in Cambridge tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Ted

R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making