One of my Phals (Phal Brother Treasure x George Vasquez) started developing
something that I at first assumed was a spike. Today I discovered that it is
a basal keiki -- except it is not developing at the base, but in the middle
of the leaf growing area (2 leaves from the bottom). It's funny-looking. The
first two basal keikis (on two of my Doritaenopsis) started somewhere below
the medium and then poked their leaves out of the medium. This one is not
like that at all, I can clearly see where it comes out of the plant. This
phal has not flowered for me in 2005 -- last flowering in the spring of
2004. It had a couple of beginnings of spikes that stalled and never grew
up. It's a vigorous orchid with lots of leaves and lots of healthy aerial
roots. And now this not-quote-basal keiki.

Up until today I had assumed that Phal's basal keikis always start at the
base, at the bottom of the plant. I had assumed that non-basal keikis always
grow from a flower spike and not from the main stem where the leaves come
from. Also I had not expected any of my non-Doritaenopsis to have a basal
keiki, unless the plant itself was in danger of croaking, whereas this is a
very vigorous plant. Were my assumptions just wrong? Or is what is happening
here unusual?

Joanna

In article <QZM5f.20880$l_2.12868 [at] trnddc02>,
joanna [at] REMOVEfortunabujard.com says...
> Phal Brother Treasure x George Vasquez
>
Sorry I can't help you with the basal keiki, but the cross was
registered in 2000 as Phalaenopsis Brother Vasquez.
My only basal keiki-maker is a Dtps..
--
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

Reka,
Thank you, I will update my database.
Joanna

"Reka" <rhukari [at] rolmail.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dc1e25e9854c63d9896a2 [at] news.rolmail.net...
> In article <QZM5f.20880$l_2.12868 [at] trnddc02>,
> joanna [at] REMOVEfortunabujard.com says...
> > Phal Brother Treasure x George Vasquez
> >
> Sorry I can't help you with the basal keiki, but the cross was
> registered in 2000 as Phalaenopsis Brother Vasquez.
> My only basal keiki-maker is a Dtps..
> --
> --
> Reka
>
> This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
> http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

I think this is pretty normal. I've seen basal keiki on many non-Dtps
plants, and I currently have a Phal that's doing the exact same thing as
yours. Plants that are croaking do make keiki as a lost shot, but it
also makes sense that if a plant was doing well and had lots of "extra"
energy, it would invest it in some progeny. It was extremely lucky for
me because soon after, the primary crown got rot had had to be cut back!
The location isn't odd, as I've seen that too.

Cheers,
Xi

> Up until today I had assumed that Phal's basal keikis always start at the
> base, at the bottom of the plant. I had assumed that non-basal keikis always
> grow from a flower spike and not from the main stem where the leaves come
> from. Also I had not expected any of my non-Doritaenopsis to have a basal
> keiki, unless the plant itself was in danger of croaking, whereas this is a
> very vigorous plant. Were my assumptions just wrong? Or is what is happening
> here unusual?
>
> Joanna
>
>

Thanks Xi!

An additional thought on the placement of this basal keiki: I looked at this
orchid again, and with all the aerial roots, I wonder whether as far as the
plant is concerned that is the base of the plant now. The two leaves below
that level are still green, but if they grow yellow by the next time this
plant needs repotting (probably still a while from now), I will repot it so
that the media reach that point.

This reminds me of the orchid grower whom I encountered in Wisconsin who
would always cut off perfectly healthy leaves below the highest aerial root
and repot his Phals so that all aerial roots were in the pot -- very unusual
fellow in many ways, and an orchid hybridizer with decades of experience so
this was not due to lack of knowledge but just eccentricity I guess. Also a
coworker of mine (who is an orchid newbie) asked me recently (talking about
aerial roots) "What are those ugly things that look like worms that are
coming out of my orchid, and can I cut them off?" I guess people's aesthetic
tastes differ greatly. Personally I am quite fond of aerial roots, the more
the merrier.
Joanna

"Xi Wang" <tachyon_flux [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:REV5f.254889$tl2.225712 [at] pd7tw3no...
> I think this is pretty normal. I've seen basal keiki on many non-Dtps
> plants, and I currently have a Phal that's doing the exact same thing as
> yours. Plants that are croaking do make keiki as a lost shot, but it
> also makes sense that if a plant was doing well and had lots of "extra"
> energy, it would invest it in some progeny. It was extremely lucky for
> me because soon after, the primary crown got rot had had to be cut back!
> The location isn't odd, as I've seen that too.
>
> Cheers,
> Xi
>
> > Up until today I had assumed that Phal's basal keikis always start at
the
> > base, at the bottom of the plant. I had assumed that non-basal keikis
always
> > grow from a flower spike and not from the main stem where the leaves
come
> > from. Also I had not expected any of my non-Doritaenopsis to have a
basal
> > keiki, unless the plant itself was in danger of croaking, whereas this
is a
> > very vigorous plant. Were my assumptions just wrong? Or is what is
happening
> > here unusual?
> >
> > Joanna
> >
> >

Hello,

> An additional thought on the placement of this basal keiki: I looked at this
> orchid again, and with all the aerial roots, I wonder whether as far as the
> plant is concerned that is the base of the plant now. The two leaves below
> that level are still green, but if they grow yellow by the next time this
> plant needs repotting (probably still a while from now), I will repot it so
> that the media reach that point.

It's hard to say how leaf number and position affections the local
hormonal concentrations....it could be just that the plant is prone to
making keiki there for whatever reason(s). With my Phal (Buena Jewel X
Coral Isles) which I don't think has an official RHS grex yet, the
'basal' keiki was made below the very top leaf. There were 4 leaves
below it at the time! What's your phal called? Maybe they share
similar genetic makeups?? Mine actually started out on what I thought
would be a flower spike, but when it grew about a centimeter, it shot
out a tiny leaf...it's working on the second leaf nowadays. But hey,
there's no such thing as a bad keiki, so I say, enjoy it.

> This reminds me of the orchid grower whom I encountered in Wisconsin who
> would always cut off perfectly healthy leaves below the highest aerial root
> and repot his Phals so that all aerial roots were in the pot -- very unusual
> fellow in many ways, and an orchid hybridizer with decades of experience so
> this was not due to lack of knowledge but just eccentricity I guess. Also a
> coworker of mine (who is an orchid newbie) asked me recently (talking about
> aerial roots) "What are those ugly things that look like worms that are
> coming out of my orchid, and can I cut them off?" I guess people's aesthetic
> tastes differ greatly. Personally I am quite fond of aerial roots, the more
> the merrier.

Yeah I've heard of the whole leaf sacrificing behaviour too.
Personally, I never understood it, and would never do it myself. And I
too agree with you on the matter of aerial roots - the more the better I
say. Besides, those are the only roots that I could never kill by over
watering, ha!

Cheers,
Xi

Personally, I refer to any keiki as a "basal" one if it emanates from the
plant and not the inflorescence. Maybe we're being too broad, and those
should be considered "offshoots" instead, which eliminates the issue of the
specific point of origin on the main part of the plant.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"J Fortuna" <joanna [at] REMOVEfortunabujard.com> wrote in message
news:2rV5f.13871$2Y2.3903 [at] trnddc05...
> Reka,
> Thank you, I will update my database.
> Joanna
>
> "Reka" <rhukari [at] rolmail.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1dc1e25e9854c63d9896a2 [at] news.rolmail.net...
>> In article <QZM5f.20880$l_2.12868 [at] trnddc02>,
>> joanna [at] REMOVEfortunabujard.com says...
>> > Phal Brother Treasure x George Vasquez
>> >
>> Sorry I can't help you with the basal keiki, but the cross was
>> registered in 2000 as Phalaenopsis Brother Vasquez.
>> My only basal keiki-maker is a Dtps..
>> --
>> --
>> Reka
>>
>> This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
>> http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html
>
>

Joanna -
I'm glad you introduced this question because I've been wondering about a
basal growth on my George Vazquez cross. Check my posting today on abpo.

Tom
Walnut Creek, CA



On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:04:00 -0700, J Fortuna wrote
(in article <48X5f.24414$l_2.6050 [at] trnddc02>):

> Thanks Xi!
>
> An additional thought on the placement of this basal keiki: I looked at this
> orchid again, and with all the aerial roots, I wonder whether as far as the
> plant is concerned that is the base of the plant now. The two leaves below
> that level are still green, but if they grow yellow by the next time this
> plant needs repotting (probably still a while from now), I will repot it so
> that the media reach that point.
>
> This reminds me of the orchid grower whom I encountered in Wisconsin who
> would always cut off perfectly healthy leaves below the highest aerial root
> and repot his Phals so that all aerial roots were in the pot -- very unusual
> fellow in many ways, and an orchid hybridizer with decades of experience so
> this was not due to lack of knowledge but just eccentricity I guess. Also a
> coworker of mine (who is an orchid newbie) asked me recently (talking about
> aerial roots) "What are those ugly things that look like worms that are
> coming out of my orchid, and can I cut them off?" I guess people's aesthetic
> tastes differ greatly. Personally I am quite fond of aerial roots, the more
> the merrier.
> Joanna
>
> "Xi Wang" <tachyon_flux [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:REV5f.254889$tl2.225712 [at] pd7tw3no...
>> I think this is pretty normal. I've seen basal keiki on many non-Dtps
>> plants, and I currently have a Phal that's doing the exact same thing as
>> yours. Plants that are croaking do make keiki as a lost shot, but it
>> also makes sense that if a plant was doing well and had lots of "extra"
>> energy, it would invest it in some progeny. It was extremely lucky for
>> me because soon after, the primary crown got rot had had to be cut back!
>> The location isn't odd, as I've seen that too.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Xi
>>
>>> Up until today I had assumed that Phal's basal keikis always start at
> the
>>> base, at the bottom of the plant. I had assumed that non-basal keikis
> always
>>> grow from a flower spike and not from the main stem where the leaves
> come
>>> from. Also I had not expected any of my non-Doritaenopsis to have a
> basal
>>> keiki, unless the plant itself was in danger of croaking, whereas this
> is a
>>> very vigorous plant. Were my assumptions just wrong? Or is what is
> happening
>>> here unusual?
>>>
>>> Joanna