Maybe it's just me being cranky, but Orchids magazine doesn't seem as
good as it used to be. The January issue was exceptionally dull. The
article "Slipper Orchid Alliance" was just about people in the slipper
alliance and seemed more aimed at ego stoking than anything else. (It
would have been great to have had an article about some aspect of the
plants themselves.) The article on "Orchids in Costa Rica" was a dull
historical perspective focussed on people. (I would have rather have
had an article just about the plants in Costa Rica and tours one could
take to see them. I have been to Costa Rica, and it was a fabulous
trip.) The article on orchid cards was also boring. The article on
"Bamboo Shade House" was for Florida growers. The article on "Managing
Your Collection" is geared toward the grower with a large greenhouse,
lots of land, and a huge collection. The article on Microthelys
rubrocallosa didn't exactly make my pulse race either, but it might
have been exciting to an AOS judge.

On the cover, it says "Staking Basics," and "Staking Orchids" is also
on the magazine's spine, which would lead one to think that there is an
article on staking orchids. There isn't--there's ONE paragraph about
staking cymbidiums. An article about staking with photos or drawings
would have been great, but it wasn't there.

Now the dues/subscription is going up to $60 per year. Is it worth it?
Not to me. I learn more on this newsgroup than I do in the magazine.
What do you guys think?

when did it go up to $60?! no way am i renewing at that price.....
yipes. i mean, the magazine is very nice eye candy, but not *that*
nice.

--j_a

It's in the letter from the president on page 48.

ah. i skim it when i get it for the calendar and stuff, then it goes
into the stack. :) (the stack is currently about a foot high...)

--j_a

OrchidKitty wrote:
> Maybe it's just me being cranky, but Orchids magazine doesn't seem as
> good as it used to be. The January issue was exceptionally dull. The
> article "Slipper Orchid Alliance" was just about people in the slipper
> alliance and seemed more aimed at ego stoking than anything else. (It
> would have been great to have had an article about some aspect of the
> plants themselves.) The article on "Orchids in Costa Rica" was a dull
> historical perspective focussed on people. (I would have rather have
> had an article just about the plants in Costa Rica and tours one could
> take to see them. I have been to Costa Rica, and it was a fabulous
> trip.) The article on orchid cards was also boring. The article on
> "Bamboo Shade House" was for Florida growers. The article on "Managing
> Your Collection" is geared toward the grower with a large greenhouse,
> lots of land, and a huge collection. The article on Microthelys
> rubrocallosa didn't exactly make my pulse race either, but it might
> have been exciting to an AOS judge.
>
> On the cover, it says "Staking Basics," and "Staking Orchids" is also
> on the magazine's spine, which would lead one to think that there is an
> article on staking orchids. There isn't--there's ONE paragraph about
> staking cymbidiums. An article about staking with photos or drawings
> would have been great, but it wasn't there.
>
> Now the dues/subscription is going up to $60 per year. Is it worth it?
> Not to me. I learn more on this newsgroup than I do in the magazine.
> What do you guys think?
>


Sounds like you need a quick trip to the OrchidSafari archives. We have
an article on staking orchids, articles (from Bob Wellenstein) on paphs
and their culture, an article on a conservation trip to Costa Rica, and
much more.

http://www.geocities.com.brassia.geo/OSTA.html and
http://www.orchidsafari.org

Enough Blatant self promotion.... *G*!

I agree that the magazine doesn't fit my needs much anymore either...but
i always think that then end up looking back and seeing how much info
there actually is in it, once my tastes change.

But that still, IMHO, doesn't justify $60 per year. If I wasn't in the
judging program I wouldn't rejoin. The Florida bend to the articles,
the one about the lath house is especially laughable, like, only an
idiot couldn't grow orchids in Florida. Get real! LOL!!

K Barrett

I had let my membership lapse some time ago, but got roped into rejoining to
get the discount on registering an award. Kenni

"OrchidKitty" <devonadors [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1136393604.004997.6140 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe it's just me being cranky, but Orchids magazine doesn't seem as
> good as it used to be. The January issue was exceptionally dull. The
> article "Slipper Orchid Alliance" was just about people in the slipper
> alliance and seemed more aimed at ego stoking than anything else. (It
> would have been great to have had an article about some aspect of the
> plants themselves.) The article on "Orchids in Costa Rica" was a dull
> historical perspective focussed on people. (I would have rather have
> had an article just about the plants in Costa Rica and tours one could
> take to see them. I have been to Costa Rica, and it was a fabulous
> trip.) The article on orchid cards was also boring. The article on
> "Bamboo Shade House" was for Florida growers. The article on "Managing
> Your Collection" is geared toward the grower with a large greenhouse,
> lots of land, and a huge collection. The article on Microthelys
> rubrocallosa didn't exactly make my pulse race either, but it might
> have been exciting to an AOS judge.
>
> On the cover, it says "Staking Basics," and "Staking Orchids" is also
> on the magazine's spine, which would lead one to think that there is an
> article on staking orchids. There isn't--there's ONE paragraph about
> staking cymbidiums. An article about staking with photos or drawings
> would have been great, but it wasn't there.
>
> Now the dues/subscription is going up to $60 per year. Is it worth it?
> Not to me. I learn more on this newsgroup than I do in the magazine.
> What do you guys think?
>

What is the cost of an award for members vs non-members? How many do you or
your plants get per year that justifies the $60 expense? :-)

I think it is somewhat weird to award a grower a CCM or CCE and then present
him/her with a bill to register it.. It turns the grower into something
like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of OZ who eagerly agrees with the Wizard
that he is smart but needs a diploma to show the world he has brain....as if
the brain can't speak for itself.

"Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
news:u7CdncnR5LoY1iDenZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>I had let my membership lapse some time ago, but got roped into rejoining
>to get the discount on registering an award. Kenni
>
> "OrchidKitty" <devonadors [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1136393604.004997.6140 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Maybe it's just me being cranky, but Orchids magazine doesn't seem as
>> good as it used to be. The January issue was exceptionally dull. The
>> article "Slipper Orchid Alliance" was just about people in the slipper
>> alliance and seemed more aimed at ego stoking than anything else. (It
>> would have been great to have had an article about some aspect of the
>> plants themselves.) The article on "Orchids in Costa Rica" was a dull
>> historical perspective focussed on people. (I would have rather have
>> had an article just about the plants in Costa Rica and tours one could
>> take to see them. I have been to Costa Rica, and it was a fabulous
>> trip.) The article on orchid cards was also boring. The article on
>> "Bamboo Shade House" was for Florida growers. The article on "Managing
>> Your Collection" is geared toward the grower with a large greenhouse,
>> lots of land, and a huge collection. The article on Microthelys
>> rubrocallosa didn't exactly make my pulse race either, but it might
>> have been exciting to an AOS judge.
>>
>> On the cover, it says "Staking Basics," and "Staking Orchids" is also
>> on the magazine's spine, which would lead one to think that there is an
>> article on staking orchids. There isn't--there's ONE paragraph about
>> staking cymbidiums. An article about staking with photos or drawings
>> would have been great, but it wasn't there.
>>
>> Now the dues/subscription is going up to $60 per year. Is it worth it?
>> Not to me. I learn more on this newsgroup than I do in the magazine.
>> What do you guys think?
>>
>
>

The discount is $20 ($60 for non-members, $40 for members); seems to have
gone up from last time ... I gather it pays for the award photographer as
well as AOS overhead. So you need 3 a year to make the membership pay for
itself. Which means I need 2 more this year <G>. Kenni

"Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
news:KZKdne2OKPPXzyDeRVn-ig [at] adelphia.com...
> What is the cost of an award for members vs non-members? How many do you
> or your plants get per year that justifies the $60 expense? :-)
>
> I think it is somewhat weird to award a grower a CCM or CCE and then
> present him/her with a bill to register it.. It turns the grower into
> something like the Scarecrow in the Wizard of OZ who eagerly agrees with
> the Wizard that he is smart but needs a diploma to show the world he has
> brain....as if the brain can't speak for itself.
>
> "Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
> news:u7CdncnR5LoY1iDenZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>>I had let my membership lapse some time ago, but got roped into rejoining
>>to get the discount on registering an award. Kenni
>>
>> "OrchidKitty" <devonadors [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:1136393604.004997.6140 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Maybe it's just me being cranky, but Orchids magazine doesn't seem as
>>> good as it used to be. The January issue was exceptionally dull. The
>>> article "Slipper Orchid Alliance" was just about people in the slipper
>>> alliance and seemed more aimed at ego stoking than anything else. (It
>>> would have been great to have had an article about some aspect of the
>>> plants themselves.) The article on "Orchids in Costa Rica" was a dull
>>> historical perspective focussed on people. (I would have rather have
>>> had an article just about the plants in Costa Rica and tours one could
>>> take to see them. I have been to Costa Rica, and it was a fabulous
>>> trip.) The article on orchid cards was also boring. The article on
>>> "Bamboo Shade House" was for Florida growers. The article on "Managing
>>> Your Collection" is geared toward the grower with a large greenhouse,
>>> lots of land, and a huge collection. The article on Microthelys
>>> rubrocallosa didn't exactly make my pulse race either, but it might
>>> have been exciting to an AOS judge.
>>>
>>> On the cover, it says "Staking Basics," and "Staking Orchids" is also
>>> on the magazine's spine, which would lead one to think that there is an
>>> article on staking orchids. There isn't--there's ONE paragraph about
>>> staking cymbidiums. An article about staking with photos or drawings
>>> would have been great, but it wasn't there.
>>>
>>> Now the dues/subscription is going up to $60 per year. Is it worth it?
>>> Not to me. I learn more on this newsgroup than I do in the magazine.
>>> What do you guys think?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it eats
up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every award so
that they can be distributed to all of the other judging centers. If AOS
keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to break eventually
(or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
-danny

"Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
news:6d-dnSKED5cp8iDeRVn-oQ [at] adelphia.com...
> The discount is $20 ($60 for non-members, $40 for members); seems to have
> gone up from last time ... I gather it pays for the award photographer as
> well as AOS overhead. So you need 3 a year to make the membership pay for
> itself. Which means I need 2 more this year <G>. Kenni
>

Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think you
can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get a
copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not included.
And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay for me to
buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the slide, I need a
digital or at least something I could scan.

I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from Hurricane
Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers everything ...
even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may sound, I will not be
surprised by more price increases.

And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse again.
Kenni


"danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
> get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
> eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every award
> so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging centers. If
> AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to break
> eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
> -danny

Since it is a non-profit organization, The American Orchid Society's IRS
Form 990 , is a matter of public record. So I thought it would be fun to
see if I could find it online. :-)

The most recent one online I found is the 2003 form, but they are available
going back to 1998. It's interesting, I suppose, and all it cost to pull up
the .pdf copy on guidestar.org was to register a my name and a password,
which was free. I say it's interesting to look over, even if some of it's
import is probably lost on me. I enjoyed reading the list of stock and bond
investments, and the list of grants...and the income, minus COGS from their
Orchid Emporium. I think I would have to dig to find the revenues and costs
associated with the award program and the magazine... I didn't look too
deeply at the numbers. Besides I just wanted to see if it was online...
and it is....

But, I'm sure the AOS must publish this info themselves someplace, right?
Don't they put it in the magazine or on the website?

You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide form)
that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)

"Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
news:jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com...
> Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
> you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
> threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
> decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
> that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get
> a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
> included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
> for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
> slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.
>
> I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
> Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
> everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
> sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.
>
> And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
> again. Kenni
>
>
> "danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
> news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>> Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
>> get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
>> eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
>> award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
>> centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to
>> break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
>> -danny
>
>

Al wrote:
> Since it is a non-profit organization, The American Orchid Society's IRS
> Form 990 , is a matter of public record. So I thought it would be fun to
> see if I could find it online. :-)
>
> The most recent one online I found is the 2003 form, but they are available
> going back to 1998. It's interesting, I suppose, and all it cost to pull up
> the .pdf copy on guidestar.org was to register a my name and a password,
> which was free. I say it's interesting to look over, even if some of it's
> import is probably lost on me. I enjoyed reading the list of stock and bond
> investments, and the list of grants...and the income, minus COGS from their
> Orchid Emporium. I think I would have to dig to find the revenues and costs
> associated with the award program and the magazine... I didn't look too
> deeply at the numbers. Besides I just wanted to see if it was online...
> and it is....
>
> But, I'm sure the AOS must publish this info themselves someplace, right?
> Don't they put it in the magazine or on the website?
>
>

In the way olden days they used to publish it in the Bulletin, along
with minutes of the meetings, but no more.

David Grove usually provides a link to the guidestar report on the OGD.
Usually good for a few days of outrage.

K Barrett

I've gotten slides of my awards, but I know that not everyone has.
Usually its a matter of housekeeping, the award slide paperwork is as
onerous as submitting health insurance forms. Just about everyone has a
huge backlog. Jeeze, tracking the provisional awards alone can kill you.

K Barrett

Al wrote:
> You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
> Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
> you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
> professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide form)
> that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)
>
> "Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
> news:jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com...
>
>>Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
>>you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
>>threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
>>decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
>>that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should get
>>a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
>>included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
>>for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
>>slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.
>>
>>I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
>>Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
>>everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
>>sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.
>>
>>And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
>>again. Kenni
>>
>>
>>"danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
>>news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>>Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us who
>>>get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower it
>>>eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
>>>award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
>>>centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going to
>>>break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
>>>-danny
>>
>>
>
>

I remember the olden days, I think I have some old magazines that have them
in it. I remember the discussion when they stopped publishing it. And I
can see why a quick scan of the AOS 990 on guidestar would enrage the
proletariat, especially just after an announcement that dues are increasing.
:-D

If I should suddenly be killed under a bus or something, tell them it was
the orchid mafia.

"K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AaGdnUdXgr6ZUiDenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...

> In the way olden days they used to publish it in the Bulletin, along with
> minutes of the meetings, but no more.
>
> David Grove usually provides a link to the guidestar report on the OGD.
> Usually good for a few days of outrage.
>
> K Barrett

I do recall that the slides shows up separately from, and somewhat later
than, award parchment. But they do show up.

"K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wYGdnYJ08_9JUiDenZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> I've gotten slides of my awards, but I know that not everyone has. Usually
> its a matter of housekeeping, the award slide paperwork is as onerous as
> submitting health insurance forms. Just about everyone has a huge
> backlog. Jeeze, tracking the provisional awards alone can kill you.
>
> K Barrett
>
> Al wrote:
>> You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here
>> in Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation
>> that you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
>> professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
>> form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)
>>
>> "Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
>> news:jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com...
>>
>>>Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
>>>you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
>>>threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
>>>decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
>>>that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
>>>get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
>>>included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
>>>for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
>>>slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.
>>>
>>>I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
>>>Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
>>>everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
>>>sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.
>>>
>>>And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
>>>again. Kenni
>>>
>>>
>>>"danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
>>>news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>>>Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
>>>>who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
>>>>it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
>>>>award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
>>>>centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
>>>>to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
>>>>-danny
>>>
>>>
>>

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet.

The Orchid Digest is where you should be.

http://www.orchiddigest.com/

$32/yr or $60 for 2 years.

Granted, it's only published 4 times a year, but the magazine is so heads
and shoulders above the AOS magazine that there's almost no comparison. The
final issue of each year is always a larger special issue that goes in-depth
into a topic. The final issue for 2005 was a romp through orchid color
forms. Recent special year-end issues have seen comprehensive treatments of
the genera Phalaenopsis, Cattleya, and Phragmipedium. I refer to each of
those regularly.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

In article <jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com>,
kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com says...

~And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay for me to
~buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the slide, I need a
~digital or at least something I could scan.

Kenni, you can get an adapter for some scanners in order to scan slides.
They turn out pretty well.

--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up several
times just to get the award registered, finally got the certificate about a
year later and never got a slide [and most recently, I'm following up AGAIN
because the award info, which was previously in WildCatt, has somehow
disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor any separate paperwork to
request a copy of the slide, that I can recall. But (no disrespect to the
photographer), I actually didn't care for the award photo on that one and
got one on my own digital camera that I like better.

Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the award
registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her and being
sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being told several
weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has there been any
mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at the judging center
.... again.

Kenni

"Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
news:WoadnVUndNTFIyDenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
> You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
> Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
> you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
> professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
> form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)
>
> "Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
> news:jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com...
>> Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
>> you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
>> threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
>> decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
>> that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
>> get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
>> included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
>> for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
>> slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.
>>
>> I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
>> Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
>> everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
>> sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.
>>
>> And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
>> again. Kenni
>>
>>
>> "danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
>> news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>> Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
>>> who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
>>> it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
>>> award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
>>> centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
>>> to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
>>> -danny
>>
>>
>
>

Well, these were both provisional awards. They are a real bear to
track. I wish more exhibitors were as punctual as you are. Most run
and hide, refuse to pay for the award until we bill them anyway, then
they get off their asses to get the plant identified, registered or what
have you... THEN the paperwork starts through the AOS system, which
takes a minimum of 6 months. In the meantime the AOS photographer has
the slides stored someplace and if no one tells him that the award has
been cleared they just sit and wait until someone asks for the slides.

BTW, your awards are in OrchidWiz.

K Barrett
Kenni Judd wrote:
> Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
> provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up several
> times just to get the award registered, finally got the certificate about a
> year later and never got a slide [and most recently, I'm following up AGAIN
> because the award info, which was previously in WildCatt, has somehow
> disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor any separate paperwork to
> request a copy of the slide, that I can recall. But (no disrespect to the
> photographer), I actually didn't care for the award photo on that one and
> got one on my own digital camera that I like better.
>
> Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
> provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the award
> registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her and being
> sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being told several
> weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has there been any
> mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at the judging center
> ... again.
>
> Kenni
>
> "Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
> news:WoadnVUndNTFIyDenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>
>>You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
>>Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
>>you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
>>professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
>>form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)
>>
>>"Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
>>news:jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com...
>>
>>>Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
>>>you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
>>>threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
>>>decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
>>>that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
>>>get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
>>>included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
>>>for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
>>>slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.
>>>
>>>I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
>>>Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
>>>everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
>>>sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.
>>>
>>>And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
>>>again. Kenni
>>>
>>>
>>>"danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
>>>news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>>>Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
>>>>who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
>>>>it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
>>>>award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
>>>>centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
>>>>to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
>>>>-danny

Al wrote:
> I think it is somewhat weird to award a grower a CCM or CCE and then present
> him/her with a bill to register it..

I would suppose that AOS awards are mainly of interest to commercial
growers, so can it be written off as a business expense?

I can't see much point of the AOS judging system for the average
hobbyist, particularly the flower quality awards. I don't take my
plants to judging, but I don't imagine that the satisfaction of an AOS
award is any greater than the pleasure that I derive (at no cost) from
hearing my friends Oooh and Aaah over a plant at the local society
meeting.

Hum.... Good idea. I did order a special issue on phals, and it was
very well done. Thanks!

K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
award? Kenni

"K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:et6dnUSL98jAACPeRVn-jA [at] comcast.com...
> Well, these were both provisional awards. They are a real bear to track.
> I wish more exhibitors were as punctual as you are. Most run and hide,
> refuse to pay for the award until we bill them anyway, then they get off
> their asses to get the plant identified, registered or what have you...
> THEN the paperwork starts through the AOS system, which takes a minimum of
> 6 months. In the meantime the AOS photographer has the slides stored
> someplace and if no one tells him that the award has been cleared they
> just sit and wait until someone asks for the slides.
>
> BTW, your awards are in OrchidWiz.
>
> K Barrett
> Kenni Judd wrote:
>> Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS
>> was provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up
>> several times just to get the award registered, finally got the
>> certificate about a year later and never got a slide [and most recently,
>> I'm following up AGAIN because the award info, which was previously in
>> WildCatt, has somehow disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor
>> any separate paperwork to request a copy of the slide, that I can recall.
>> But (no disrespect to the photographer), I actually didn't care for the
>> award photo on that one and got one on my own digital camera that I like
>> better.
>>
>> Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS
>> was provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the
>> award registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her
>> and being sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being
>> told several weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has
>> there been any mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at
>> the judging center ... again.
>>
>> Kenni
>>
>> "Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
>> news:WoadnVUndNTFIyDenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>>
>>>You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here
>>>in Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation
>>>that you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
>>>professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
>>>form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)
>>>
>>>"Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
>>>news:jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com...
>>>
>>>>Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
>>>>you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
>>>>threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
>>>>decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
>>>>that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
>>>>get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
>>>>included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even
>>>>pay for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for
>>>>the slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.
>>>>
>>>>I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
>>>>Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
>>>>everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
>>>>sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.
>>>>
>>>>And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
>>>>again. Kenni
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>>
>>>>>Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
>>>>>who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the
>>>>>flower it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides
>>>>>for every award so that they can be distributed to all of the other
>>>>>judging centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system
>>>>>is going to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to
>>>>>happen.)
>>>>>-danny

Kenni Judd wrote:
> K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
> AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
> from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
> provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
> award? Kenni
>

Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS
don't necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it.
Large problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the
hybridizer to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it.
And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a
week before you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the
whole species and genera changing names problem... I don't think it
would be easier if AOS was involved.

It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit.
But that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...

Rob


--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:40:10 -0800, K Barrett <mormodes [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Well, these were both provisional awards. They are a real bear to
>track. I wish more exhibitors were as punctual as you are. Most run
>and hide, refuse to pay for the award until we bill them anyway, then
>they get off their asses to get the plant identified, registered or what
>have you... THEN the paperwork starts through the AOS system, which
>takes a minimum of 6 months. In the meantime the AOS photographer has
>the slides stored someplace and if no one tells him that the award has
>been cleared they just sit and wait until someone asks for the slides.
>
>BTW, your awards are in OrchidWiz.
>
>K Barrett


I got an award on a Bulbo last year. It is almost bloom time again
and I have heard nothing. This past year with the 2 storms messing
with the physical plant has messed with the mental equipment too.
People are too busy making sure things are not lost to rain and water
to do the mundane processing of new awards. I got the slide of my
first awarded plant (Ascda. Suksamran Sunlight 'Scarlet Letter'
AM/AOS). I am not sure Bulbo. dearei 'Long's Peak' (HCC/AOS) will
ever make it.

I have been told to wait to pay until the AOS bills me, or they will
get mixed up.

I do think the slides and matching them is part of the slow down. I
welcome a switch to digital.

Rob: On your first point: AOS and RHS should get together and work
something out. Do they need a mediator??? I could go to England this
summer, on their tab <VBG>. It REALLY just CAN'T be that hard to implement
some system for a copy of the RHS registration to come to AOS and from there
be sent to the proper person. By email, it would take maybe 30 seconds of
someone's time. And at $60 (the non-AOS-member charge to register an
award), I think that could easily include even a hard copy by mail.

> Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS don't
> necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it.

I know about the hybridizer permission rule, it's been very easy to obtain
for all 3 of my RHS registrations. Registering with RHS has been the EASY
part in both award cases (although yes, there is yet another fee involved to
do that) -- the third registration was for a plant that I want to clone even
though it hasn't been awarded. Actually, the info on how to do that part of
it was very readily available when I went looking for it, and I've found the
RHS _very_ easy to deal with -- I send them their form and their $$, they
send me back the registration papers, within a very reasonable time. There
probably are cases of a prior application to name the same grex, but I can't
imagine it's wide-spread.

In any event, there probably are at least a few folks who get awards, that
don't know even these basics, so they should be included when you write up
those instructions.

> Large problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the
> hybridizer to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it.
> And if it is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week
> before you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the whole
> species and genera changing names problem... I don't think it would be
> easier if AOS was involved.

It's the info on the AOS process that seems to be a closely-guarded secret.
It's been different both times I tried to get an award registered, but in
each case, it's been extremely onerous compared to the RHS registration
process. Each has taken numerous follow-up calls and/or email messages on
my part, and taken more than a year. Written instructions would be at least
a start on remedying this problem. If you write them up, I want a copy for
myself and I think I can make sure they are given out at the WPB judging
center [which happens to be AOS HQ]. You'll take care of it in your area,
maybe K will do it in hers, and the rest of the country will have to fend
for itself <G>. Kenni


> It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
> though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
> don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
> has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
> make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
> that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...
>
> Rob
>
>
> --
> Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
> 1) There is always room for one more orchid
> 2) There is always room for two more orchids
> 2a) See rule 1
> 3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
> orchids, obtain more credit
>

Myrecodia: Yes, commercial growers "write off" the registration fees, but
that does not make them FREE. It's just a percentage discount, depending on
the grower's tax bracket. At 15%, 28%, or even the next bracket up "off"
for the tax deduction, it's still a real cost. Nor do we get to "write off"
all the TIME we spend shepherding these things through the process, a _much_
bigger cost.

> I would suppose that AOS awards are mainly of interest to commercial
> growers, so can it be written off as a business expense?

This brings up a whole 'nother can of worms. IMHO, the AOS standards and
the taste of the orchid-buying public in my locale (south Florida) has been
drifting further and further apart for quite some time now. To the point
where it's a point I teach in my class on orchid selection:

"Don't be too impressed by AOS awards. They give no points for a lot of
things you would like -- fragrance, ease of growing, ease of blooming,
frequency of blooming, etc."

Now, for the AOS fans out there, I'll concede that some of these things
would be hard to plug into the judging standards, but that doesn't actually
resolve the issue. I didn't say I had a solution, I'm just agreeing with an
observation of the problem. Kenni

> I can't see much point of the AOS judging system for the average
> hobbyist, particularly the flower quality awards. I don't take my
> plants to judging, but I don't imagine that the satisfaction of an AOS
> award is any greater than the pleasure that I derive (at no cost) from
> hearing my friends Oooh and Aaah over a plant at the local society
> meeting.
>

Hi,

I'm totally with you on this one, but I see a lot of really competitive
people growing orchids and the AOS award "notch" on their belt is one way to
give in to that competitive urge.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org
> I can't see much point of the AOS judging system for the average
> hobbyist, particularly the flower quality awards. I don't take my

Kenni Judd wrote:
> Smbcna. [now Ctph., according to RHS] Garnet Glory 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
> provisionally awarded in June or July 2001. I had to follow up several
> times just to get the award registered, finally got the certificate about a
> year later and never got a slide [and most recently, I'm following up AGAIN
> because the award info, which was previously in WildCatt, has somehow
> disappeared from the last update I got ...], nor any separate paperwork to
> request a copy of the slide, that I can recall. But (no disrespect to the
> photographer), I actually didn't care for the award photo on that one and
> got one on my own digital camera that I like better.
>
> Rhv. [now Van., according to the RHS] Ocean Storm 'Juno Beach' HCC/AOS was
> provisionally awarded in October 2004. I'm still trying to get the award
> registered (awaiting my bill from Pam Guist after talking to her and being
> sent back to the judging center, talking to them, and being told several
> weeks ago that I'd be getting a bill from Pam). Nor has there been any
> mention of the slide. Guess I'll go talk to the folks at the judging center
> ... again.
>
> Kenni
>
> "Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
> news:WoadnVUndNTFIyDenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
> > You can get slides copied into .jpg files at the Ritz camera store here in
> > Leesburg. They used to provide a slide with the award documentation that
> > you get after you pay the invoice... has that stopped? It is that
> > professionally taken portrait of the awarded flower (albeit in slide
> > form) that makes it worth the cost of the award. ;-)
> >
> > "Kenni Judd" <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote in message
> > news:jKmdnfxO-PtmMCDeRVn-vg [at] adelphia.com...
> >> Danny: That's not the only thing that's going to break AOS, as I think
> >> you can see from this thread. Membership is already either voting, or
> >> threatening to vote, with their feet/$$. As membership and prestige
> >> decline, the awards become less valuable -- on that point, I have to say
> >> that for $60 or even $40 to register an award, I really think I should
> >> get a copy of the award photo to use on my website, but NO, that's not
> >> included. And because they do insist on using slides, it doesn't even pay
> >> for me to buy one from the photographer, because I have no use for the
> >> slide, I need a digital or at least something I could scan.
> >>
> >> I should perhaps also note that AOS HQ suffered major damage from
> >> Hurricane Wilma. I expect it's well-insured, but that never covers
> >> everything ... even after the deductible. So, cynical though this may
> >> sound, I will not be surprised by more price increases.
> >>
> >> And if I don't get 2 more awards this year, the membership will lapse
> >> again. Kenni
> >>
> >>
> >> "danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
> >> news:oNgvf.100064$k76.81769 [at] bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> >>> Photography costs can eat up a lot of the award fee. For those of us
> >>> who get slides duplicated instead of shooting a whole roll of the flower
> >>> it eats up almost the entire award fee. We send in 36 slides for every
> >>> award so that they can be distributed to all of the other judging
> >>> centers. If AOS keeps adding new judging centers this system is going
> >>> to break eventually (or a switch to digital will need to happen.)
> >>> -danny
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
Hi Kenni, On those provisional awards: They will play hell trying to
find the slide if you don't remind Pam of the parents. The
photographer, naturally, identified the slide w/what he(she) had which
was just the parents. I had a tough time w/my Odcdm. Luke Skywalker
'Orchid Island' till I sent Pam the parents-- then I got my slide. Bill

Kenni, ARE YOU KIDDING???? What do you want for your lousy $60. ??????
<LOL> Bill

Rob wrote:
> Kenni Judd wrote:
>
>> K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that
>> difficult for AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex
>> registration (directly from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is
>> named? Or at least to provide some written instructions to the
>> exhibitor, with the provisional award? Kenni
>>
>
> Unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that... AOS and RHS
> don't necessarily play well together, but that is the least of it. Large
> problem is that you are supposed to obtain permission of the hybridizer
> to register an award. And there is a fee associated with it. And if it
> is already in progress (somebody submitted the paperwork a week before
> you do), it gets more complicated. And then there is the whole species
> and genera changing names problem... I don't think it would be easier if
> AOS was involved.
>
> It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
> though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
> don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
> has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
> make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
> that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...
>
> Rob
>
>


WHAT?

You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid or
how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so! Say
I'm misreading that.

K Barrett

Kenni Judd wrote:
> K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult for
> AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration (directly
> from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at least to
> provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the provisional
> award? Kenni
>
>

Well, actually, yes it would. How's the RHS gonna know the AOS has
given out a provisional award and needs the new name? Plus, who's
physically gonna do that work? On a daily basis? Me? You? Sit and
wait for an email from the RHS, where someone on that end has to sit and
wait until the check (cheque) clears and the name can be typed up? Then
send it to you or me. Then we then have to retype it into whatever
format we need so the information is useable for print, webpages or
whathave you? Send it to the web master for the webpage, and
disseminate it to Wildactt or Orchidwiz or Bronstein for his program??
Get real.

Hence the need for award programs that are updated frequently. I go to
the RHS site and download the .pdfs for the new registrations, but those
are just 'lists' until I see a plant that I need to know about. And
even then I don't look at them. I look a plant up in Wildcatt or
OrchidWiz. Failing that I look in the Fisher's Bishops, or (last
resort) the index of the latest AQ.

I've been tracking the provisionals for the Pac Central for a year and
its a real pain in the ass. IMHO there's a very few exhibitors who
follow up in a timely manner and even *then* the process seems to take a
year before you see the award published in the AQ and the exhibitor gets
their slide etc. Its not like exhibitors are your employees where you
can hound them every second. "Did you get your work done?? We're on a
dealine you know. You're not being a *team player*, you're dropping the
ball. This is going to delay your award...." You can't do that.

The judges have their own lives, exhibitors have their own lives,
paperwork gets handled as soon as possible, and chased after whenever
you feel like taking on a challenge - like I don't have enough of that
in my life already. By that time, the glow of having gotten a award has
faded, the process becomes "work", and the exhibitor has enough of that
in their lives aleady, so they stall and whine and say they don't want
the award after all. But the photos have already been taken, the film
processed and money has been spent on their plant, so someone's gotta
pay for that. Its maddening.

There's enough blame for how f*cked up the system is on BOTH sides of
the street. A pox on both our houses.

Maybe we should just stop giving awards...

K Barrett

K -- Garnet Glory was awarded at the WPB judging center (before HQ was
built), Ocean Storm was awarded at the Delray Beach OS Show. In neither
case did I get anything besides the judging form with the award sticker on
it. Kenni

>>
>> It would be nice to give some written instructions to the exhibitor,
>> though. Maybe even a copy of the registration form. Unfortunately, I
>> don't think that is going to happen on an organized level. Now that it
>> has been brought to my attention (never thought about it before), I'll
>> make sure to keep a few extra copies of the forms in my judging kit. But
>> that is just me. Maybe it is one step towards changing the world...
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>
>
> WHAT?
>
> You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid or
> how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so! Say I'm
> misreading that.
>
> K Barrett

Hi, K: RHS knows the AOS gave out a provisional award when I send in a
registration, because I put it on the form. One more line on the form would
let them know who at AOS to notify, or at least which judging center (where
somebody should be checking mail at least a couple times a week). RHS
already has to send me back the registration; a cc to the appropriate AOS
person would add maybe 5 seconds to the RHS person's job? and should give
the AOS person the info needed to get the award "on track." [Which might
make a couple extra lines on the form, but really shouldn't be an
insurmountable challenge.]

But failing that, I would certainly make sure the right AOS person got a
copy when I got mine -- had I been told in either case who that person was
.... or even that I needed to.

I didn't say anything about disseminating the award info to commercial
database producers like WildCatt or OrchidWiz. I was talking only about
communication between RHS and AOS, and between AOS and the exhibitor.

I think that reducing the delay in the process would make your job easier,
not harder. Kenni

"K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9YCdnWiS_62NciLeRVn-tw [at] comcast.com...
> Kenni Judd wrote:
>> K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult
>> for AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration
>> (directly from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at
>> least to provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the
>> provisional award? Kenni
>>
>
> Well, actually, yes it would. How's the RHS gonna know the AOS has given
> out a provisional award and needs the new name? Plus, who's physically
> gonna do that work? On a daily basis? Me? You? Sit and wait for an
> email from the RHS, where someone on that end has to sit and wait until
> the check (cheque) clears and the name can be typed up? Then send it to
> you or me. Then we then have to retype it into whatever format we need so
> the information is useable for print, webpages or whathave you? Send it
> to the web master for the webpage, and disseminate it to Wildactt or
> Orchidwiz or Bronstein for his program?? Get real.
>
> Hence the need for award programs that are updated frequently. I go to
> the RHS site and download the .pdfs for the new registrations, but those
> are just 'lists' until I see a plant that I need to know about. And even
> then I don't look at them. I look a plant up in Wildcatt or OrchidWiz.
> Failing that I look in the Fisher's Bishops, or (last resort) the index of
> the latest AQ.
>
> I've been tracking the provisionals for the Pac Central for a year and its
> a real pain in the ass. IMHO there's a very few exhibitors who follow up
> in a timely manner and even *then* the process seems to take a year before
> you see the award published in the AQ and the exhibitor gets their slide
> etc. Its not like exhibitors are your employees where you can hound them
> every second. "Did you get your work done?? We're on a dealine you know.
> You're not being a *team player*, you're dropping the ball. This is going
> to delay your award...." You can't do that.
>
> The judges have their own lives, exhibitors have their own lives,
> paperwork gets handled as soon as possible, and chased after whenever you
> feel like taking on a challenge - like I don't have enough of that in my
> life already. By that time, the glow of having gotten a award has faded,
> the process becomes "work", and the exhibitor has enough of that in their
> lives aleady, so they stall and whine and say they don't want the award
> after all. But the photos have already been taken, the film processed and
> money has been spent on their plant, so someone's gotta pay for that. Its
> maddening.
>
> There's enough blame for how f*cked up the system is on BOTH sides of the
> street. A pox on both our houses.
>
> Maybe we should just stop giving awards...
>
> K Barrett

On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:04:25 -0500, "Kenni Judd"
<kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote:
..... clip..........
>It's the info on the AOS process that seems to be a closely-guarded secret.
>It's been different both times I tried to get an award registered, but in
>each case, it's been extremely onerous compared to the RHS registration
>process. Each has taken numerous follow-up calls and/or email messages on
>my part, and taken more than a year. Written instructions would be at least
>a start on remedying this problem. If you write them up, I want a copy for
>myself and I think I can make sure they are given out at the WPB judging
>center [which happens to be AOS HQ]. You'll take care of it in your area,
>maybe K will do it in hers, and the rest of the country will have to fend
>for itself <G>. Kenni
>

Kenni & Rob -
I would love that packet when Rob gets it completed. I can cover
RMJC (Denver).

(As Sundance said to Butch Cassidy)

Keep thinking, Butch, That's what you're good at.

K


Kenni Judd wrote:
> Hi, K: RHS knows the AOS gave out a provisional award when I send in a
> registration, because I put it on the form. One more line on the form would
> let them know who at AOS to notify, or at least which judging center (where
> somebody should be checking mail at least a couple times a week). RHS
> already has to send me back the registration; a cc to the appropriate AOS
> person would add maybe 5 seconds to the RHS person's job? and should give
> the AOS person the info needed to get the award "on track." [Which might
> make a couple extra lines on the form, but really shouldn't be an
> insurmountable challenge.]
>
> But failing that, I would certainly make sure the right AOS person got a
> copy when I got mine -- had I been told in either case who that person was
> ... or even that I needed to.
>
> I didn't say anything about disseminating the award info to commercial
> database producers like WildCatt or OrchidWiz. I was talking only about
> communication between RHS and AOS, and between AOS and the exhibitor.
>
> I think that reducing the delay in the process would make your job easier,
> not harder. Kenni
>
> "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9YCdnWiS_62NciLeRVn-tw [at] comcast.com...
>
>>Kenni Judd wrote:
>>
>>>K -- Maybe I'm missing something, but would it really be that difficult
>>>for AOS to arrange with RHS to receive a copy of the grex registration
>>>(directly from RHS) when a provisionally-awarded plant is named? Or at
>>>least to provide some written instructions to the exhibitor, with the
>>>provisional award? Kenni
>>>
>>
>>Well, actually, yes it would. How's the RHS gonna know the AOS has given
>>out a provisional award and needs the new name? Plus, who's physically
>>gonna do that work? On a daily basis? Me? You? Sit and wait for an
>>email from the RHS, where someone on that end has to sit and wait until
>>the check (cheque) clears and the name can be typed up? Then send it to
>>you or me. Then we then have to retype it into whatever format we need so
>>the information is useable for print, webpages or whathave you? Send it
>>to the web master for the webpage, and disseminate it to Wildactt or
>>Orchidwiz or Bronstein for his program?? Get real.
>>
>>Hence the need for award programs that are updated frequently. I go to
>>the RHS site and download the .pdfs for the new registrations, but those
>>are just 'lists' until I see a plant that I need to know about. And even
>>then I don't look at them. I look a plant up in Wildcatt or OrchidWiz.
>>Failing that I look in the Fisher's Bishops, or (last resort) the index of
>>the latest AQ.
>>
>>I've been tracking the provisionals for the Pac Central for a year and its
>>a real pain in the ass. IMHO there's a very few exhibitors who follow up
>>in a timely manner and even *then* the process seems to take a year before
>>you see the award published in the AQ and the exhibitor gets their slide
>>etc. Its not like exhibitors are your employees where you can hound them
>>every second. "Did you get your work done?? We're on a dealine you know.
>>You're not being a *team player*, you're dropping the ball. This is going
>>to delay your award...." You can't do that.
>>
>>The judges have their own lives, exhibitors have their own lives,
>>paperwork gets handled as soon as possible, and chased after whenever you
>>feel like taking on a challenge - like I don't have enough of that in my
>>life already. By that time, the glow of having gotten a award has faded,
>>the process becomes "work", and the exhibitor has enough of that in their
>>lives aleady, so they stall and whine and say they don't want the award
>>after all. But the photos have already been taken, the film processed and
>>money has been spent on their plant, so someone's gotta pay for that. Its
>>maddening.
>>
>>There's enough blame for how f*cked up the system is on BOTH sides of the
>>street. A pox on both our houses.
>>
>>Maybe we should just stop giving awards...
>>
>>K Barrett
>
>
>

K Barrett wrote:
> Rob wrote:

>
> You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid or
> how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so! Say
> I'm misreading that.
>
> K Barrett

No, I don't think we do. Of course I or anybody else is always happy to
tell an exhibitor how to go about those things, but we don't have a
piece of paper with instructions on it. If we do, I have never seen it,
and I've had to do both of the above activities more than once for my
own awards.

Now, it could be possible that we have been lulled into complacency.
95% of the things that need identification in our center probably come
from one of two people, and they are both judges. It is trivially easy
to register a new hybrid, if you know who produced it, or at least it
seems that way to all of us 'old hands'. So we may not always think
about the exhibitor who is new to the process or at least new to getting
something registered. Our center chair would of course follow through
on any awards that were still outstanding, she is pretty good about that.

I think it all boils down to experience. The judges have more
experience than most growers, which is to be expected, and unless we
actively think about what other people may _not_ know, it is hard to
anticipate the questions ahead of time. So, for my own purposes, I've
been reminded that not everybody knows how to register a new hybrid, and
I'll make sure to ask and offer assistance. Best I can do... I will
probably bring it up at our next business meeting, as well.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Rob wrote:
> K Barrett wrote:
>
>> Rob wrote:
>
>
>>
>> You don't give out instructions on how to register an unnamed hybrid
>> or how to get an unidentified orchid identified??? Say its not so!
>> Say I'm misreading that.
>>
>> K Barrett
>
>
> No, I don't think we do. Of course I or anybody else is always happy to
> tell an exhibitor how to go about those things, but we don't have a
> piece of paper with instructions on it. If we do, I have never seen it,
> and I've had to do both of the above activities more than once for my
> own awards.
>
> Now, it could be possible that we have been lulled into complacency. 95%
> of the things that need identification in our center probably come from
> one of two people, and they are both judges. It is trivially easy to
> register a new hybrid, if you know who produced it, or at least it seems
> that way to all of us 'old hands'. So we may not always think about the
> exhibitor who is new to the process or at least new to getting something
> registered. Our center chair would of course follow through on any
> awards that were still outstanding, she is pretty good about that.
>
> I think it all boils down to experience. The judges have more
> experience than most growers, which is to be expected, and unless we
> actively think about what other people may _not_ know, it is hard to
> anticipate the questions ahead of time. So, for my own purposes, I've
> been reminded that not everybody knows how to register a new hybrid, and
> I'll make sure to ask and offer assistance. Best I can do... I will
> probably bring it up at our next business meeting, as well.
>
> Rob
>

And I'm going to ask that we add the form for registering a hybrid along
with the instruction sheet. Why not?

K

K -- The RHS form can be downloaded from
http://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/registration_orchids.asp . A paper copy would
be a nice courtesy, but the url would be enough for most folks. [And RHS
takes plastic, so there's no delay for checques to clear. Even with just
regular airmail postage, the RHS registration takes only 10-14 days, start
to finish.]

I hope your instructions won't stop there, but will go on to advise the
exhibitor what to do _after_ s/he gets the registration papers back from
RHS.

Kenni

> And I'm going to ask that we add the form for registering a hybrid along
> with the instruction sheet. Why not?
>
> K

I know a judge for North Carolina...send it on to me too.
Murri

"Susan Erickson" <sue [at] evilsoft.org> wrote in message
news:bg40s1940vui1jrkg4fctej8sv0pafakl2 [at] 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:04:25 -0500, "Kenni Judd"
> <kenni [at] REMOVEjborchids.com> wrote:
> .... clip..........
>>It's the info on the AOS process that seems to be a closely-guarded
>>secret.
>>It's been different both times I tried to get an award registered, but in
>>each case, it's been extremely onerous compared to the RHS registration
>>process. Each has taken numerous follow-up calls and/or email messages on
>>my part, and taken more than a year. Written instructions would be at
>>least
>>a start on remedying this problem. If you write them up, I want a copy
>>for
>>myself and I think I can make sure they are given out at the WPB judging
>>center [which happens to be AOS HQ]. You'll take care of it in your area,
>>maybe K will do it in hers, and the rest of the country will have to fend
>>for itself <G>. Kenni
>>
>
> Kenni & Rob -
> I would love that packet when Rob gets it completed. I can cover
> RMJC (Denver).
>
>