I bought this plant in Miami yesterday, for the princely sum of $7.50. It is
in spike, and has a keiki on one spike, which seems to be common for this
species. For you Phal growers, a query. I've googled this, and looked at
pictures taken by Al, but since Phal. species have had an annoying tendency
to become depressed and suicidal in my care, I thought I'd ask for some
advice.

It appears to me that the spikes on this plant need to be left unsupported
to roam on their own. Is that correct? The plant has a very healthy root
system (I checked way down in the pot) and is potted up in straight
spaghnum. One or two sites that I found mentioned growing lueddemanniana in
a basket or mounted. Another mentions plenty of water year round, which is
contrary to growing it mounted.

What's the real deal? And is it a heavy feeder?

Diana

I grow my lueddemanniana in a 8" wooden basket filled with sphagnum. I turn
the basket on it side and staple plastic gutter-guard mesh to the wood hold
the sphagnum in the bottom half. I place the plant in the upper half, add
sphagnum and staple another strip of gutterguard to hold the top half of the
sphagnum in. A regular hanger can be used in the top 2 rings and 1 through
the back top wood slat. This way the plant gets plenty of moisture and gets
to hang naturally and look pretty decent. I fertilize it every week during
the time it's growing. When it decides it's going to rest (usually winter)
it gets sprayed with fertilizer lightly and I let the sphagnum get a little
dryer. I find this method easy and sure-fire (at least for my conditions)
for most Phal species. Good luck.
Gary

"Diana Kulaga" <diandfrankcat [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:AxaDf.63933$C%3.29101 [at] bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>I bought this plant in Miami yesterday, for the princely sum of $7.50. It
>is in spike, and has a keiki on one spike, which seems to be common for
>this species. For you Phal growers, a query. I've googled this, and looked
>at pictures taken by Al, but since Phal. species have had an annoying
>tendency to become depressed and suicidal in my care, I thought I'd ask for
>some advice.
>
> It appears to me that the spikes on this plant need to be left unsupported
> to roam on their own. Is that correct? The plant has a very healthy root
> system (I checked way down in the pot) and is potted up in straight
> spaghnum. One or two sites that I found mentioned growing lueddemanniana
> in a basket or mounted. Another mentions plenty of water year round, which
> is contrary to growing it mounted.
>
> What's the real deal? And is it a heavy feeder?
>
> Diana
>

In article <BNdDf.2654$fZ2.2443 [at] bignews4.bellsouth.net>, gwills13
[at] bellsouth.net says...
~I grow my lueddemanniana in a 8" wooden basket filled with sphagnum. I turn
~the basket on it side and staple plastic gutter-guard mesh to the wood hold
~the sphagnum in the bottom half. I place the plant in the upper half, add
~sphagnum and staple another strip of gutterguard to hold the top half of the
~sphagnum in. A regular hanger can be used in the top 2 rings and 1 through
~the back top wood slat. This way the plant gets plenty of moisture and gets
~to hang naturally and look pretty decent. I fertilize it every week during
~the time it's growing. When it decides it's going to rest (usually winter)
~it gets sprayed with fertilizer lightly and I let the sphagnum get a little
~dryer. I find this method easy and sure-fire (at least for my conditions)
~for most Phal species. Good luck.


Gary, this sounds good. I'd love to see a picture.

--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

Thanks, Gary. Pretty much standard Phal care then, aside from hanging it
sideways. I do that with some Phals now, and also have some mounted. No
crown rot, ever.....

Diana

You know, I don't a a picture of this. I'll have to get one tomorrow.
Gary

"Reka" <rhukari [at] rolmail.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1e47cb763a61232a98975e [at] news.rolmail.net...
> In article <BNdDf.2654$fZ2.2443 [at] bignews4.bellsouth.net>, gwills13
> [at] bellsouth.net says...
> ~I grow my lueddemanniana in a 8" wooden basket filled with sphagnum. I
> turn
> ~the basket on it side and staple plastic gutter-guard mesh to the wood
> hold
> ~the sphagnum in the bottom half. I place the plant in the upper half, add
> ~sphagnum and staple another strip of gutterguard to hold the top half of
> the
> ~sphagnum in. A regular hanger can be used in the top 2 rings and 1
> through
> ~the back top wood slat. This way the plant gets plenty of moisture and
> gets
> ~to hang naturally and look pretty decent. I fertilize it every week
> during
> ~the time it's growing. When it decides it's going to rest (usually
> winter)
> ~it gets sprayed with fertilizer lightly and I let the sphagnum get a
> little
> ~dryer. I find this method easy and sure-fire (at least for my conditions)
> ~for most Phal species. Good luck.
>
>
> Gary, this sounds good. I'd love to see a picture.
>
> --
> Reka
>
> This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
> http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

Pretty much standard but I don't let the temp drop on them like the hybrids.
I haven't had the nerve to try any mounted since I killed a nice Phal minus
on cork. Couldn't keep it moist enough.
Gary

"Diana Kulaga" <diandfrankcat [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:bMuDf.15900$dF5.6266 [at] bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Thanks, Gary. Pretty much standard Phal care then, aside from hanging it
> sideways. I do that with some Phals now, and also have some mounted. No
> crown rot, ever.....
>
> Diana
>

Yes, it seems that species Phals don't like that temp change so much. As far
as mounting, I do water them more often, but they seem to acclimatize
themselves to less water after a while. Maybe they think they are living in
the wild, LOL! Of course, in my collection, *the wild* often applies.....

Diana

"V_coerulea" <gwills13 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9wyDf.10843$eY5.367 [at] bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Pretty much standard but I don't let the temp drop on them like the
> hybrids. I haven't had the nerve to try any mounted since I killed a nice
> Phal minus on cork. Couldn't keep it moist enough.
> Gary
>
> "Diana Kulaga" <diandfrankcat [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:bMuDf.15900$dF5.6266 [at] bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> Thanks, Gary. Pretty much standard Phal care then, aside from hanging it
>> sideways. I do that with some Phals now, and also have some mounted. No
>> crown rot, ever.....
>>
>> Diana
>>
>
>

Phal minus would probably like to be on cork better than in a pot However,
cork kept moist to the point of fostering a little moss colony around the
roots. I have seen this plant drop al leaves and then restart a crown
months later. I have also seen this plant make root kiekies inches away
from the central crown. I have seen Phal lobbii do this too. For this
reason I am afraid to declare a plant dead just because there is nothing
left but a tag and a bit of fleshy root tissue clinging to an old tree
branch

It is possible for a plant to like both being mounted and lots of moisture.
I think the luedde likes being mounted better than being in a pot, but I
would not grow it as damp as a minus.

Phal Luedde... They tend to make long ever-growing spikes that form kiekies
very easily. They make shorter branching spikes from the nodes and bloom on
these in the early spring around here and then make some more kiekies. I
have one that is a great grand mother and still has all her daughters and
grand daughters, etc. attached. It is grown in an open 8 inch wire
basket...lots of air around the roots. It gets treated to the same temps
all my Phals (about 63 to 65 degree winter nights and 80 to 90 during the
day in the summer. It gets watered when the bark and visible roots start to
look dry, which is 3 to 7 times a week depending on the season.

V_coerulea, I think it would be hard to grow and bloom cymbidiums in the
same greenhouse as you grow Phals. All the cymbidiums I ever met dropped
their buds when night temps got into the lower to mid 60 and the Phals I
know drop their buds when the night temps get lower than the mid 60s. But I
have not tried cymbidiums in many many years. Maybe their attitude has
improved in the ensuing decades since I first tried them. I know there must
be some warmth tolerant hybrids out there now.

"V_coerulea" <gwills13 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9wyDf.10843$eY5.367 [at] bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Pretty much standard but I don't let the temp drop on them like the
> hybrids. I haven't had the nerve to try any mounted since I killed a nice
> Phal minus on cork. Couldn't keep it moist enough.
> Gary
>
> "Diana Kulaga" <diandfrankcat [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:bMuDf.15900$dF5.6266 [at] bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> Thanks, Gary. Pretty much standard Phal care then, aside from hanging it
>> sideways. I do that with some Phals now, and also have some mounted. No
>> crown rot, ever.....
>>
>> Diana
>>
>
>

(This means that TMK cyms drop buds when night temps are high, like in the
60 and Phals drop buds when night temps are low, like in the mid 60s. One
group considers the mid 60s too high and the other considers it too low. I
confuse even myself.)

"Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
news:v5udnXN6WLAITkPenZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>All the cymbidiums I ever met dropped their buds when night temps got into
>the lower to mid 60 and the Phals I know drop their buds when the night
>temps get lower than the mid 60s. But I have not tried cymbidiums in many
>many years. Maybe their attitude has improved in the ensuing decades since
>I first tried them. I know there must be some warmth tolerant hybrids out
>there now.

Thanks for the info Al. Maybe I'll try another minus soon. They are great
looking plants. I don't keep the phals and cyms in the same GH. One's kept
at 60 deg minimum and the other at 45-50 minimum. The cyms grow very well
with epis, some dendrobs, roses, mums, winter bulbs and overwintering tubs
of things like hibiscus and bougainvillea. Of course, there are
microclimates that accomodate more temps even with the HAF fans going full
blast.
Thanks again
Gary

"Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
news:v5udnXN6WLAITkPenZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
> Phal minus would probably like to be on cork better than in a pot
> However, cork kept moist to the point of fostering a little moss colony
> around the roots. I have seen this plant drop al leaves and then restart
> a crown months later. I have also seen this plant make root kiekies
> inches away from the central crown. I have seen Phal lobbii do this too.
> For this reason I am afraid to declare a plant dead just because there is
> nothing left but a tag and a bit of fleshy root tissue clinging to an old
> tree branch
>
> It is possible for a plant to like both being mounted and lots of
> moisture. I think the luedde likes being mounted better than being in a
> pot, but I would not grow it as damp as a minus.
>
> Phal Luedde... They tend to make long ever-growing spikes that form
> kiekies very easily. They make shorter branching spikes from the nodes
> and bloom on these in the early spring around here and then make some
> more kiekies. I have one that is a great grand mother and still has all
> her daughters and grand daughters, etc. attached. It is grown in an open
> 8 inch wire basket...lots of air around the roots. It gets treated to the
> same temps all my Phals (about 63 to 65 degree winter nights and 80 to 90
> during the day in the summer. It gets watered when the bark and visible
> roots start to look dry, which is 3 to 7 times a week depending on the
> season.
>
> V_coerulea, I think it would be hard to grow and bloom cymbidiums in the
> same greenhouse as you grow Phals. All the cymbidiums I ever met dropped
> their buds when night temps got into the lower to mid 60 and the Phals I
> know drop their buds when the night temps get lower than the mid 60s. But
> I have not tried cymbidiums in many many years. Maybe their attitude has
> improved in the ensuing decades since I first tried them. I know there
> must be some warmth tolerant hybrids out there now.
>
> "V_coerulea" <gwills13 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:9wyDf.10843$eY5.367 [at] bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>> Pretty much standard but I don't let the temp drop on them like the
>> hybrids. I haven't had the nerve to try any mounted since I killed a nice
>> Phal minus on cork. Couldn't keep it moist enough.
>> Gary
>>
>> "Diana Kulaga" <diandfrankcat [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:bMuDf.15900$dF5.6266 [at] bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>> Thanks, Gary. Pretty much standard Phal care then, aside from hanging it
>>> sideways. I do that with some Phals now, and also have some mounted. No
>>> crown rot, ever.....
>>>
>>> Diana
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

multiple greenhouses. now that's a serious illness.

Phal minus is rumored to be a cool growing species. But like you say, that
is relative. Good plant for cool spot in warm house.

"V_coerulea" <gwills13 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:w9JDf.6692$fZ2.5820 [at] bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Thanks for the info Al. Maybe I'll try another minus soon. They are great
> looking plants. I don't keep the phals and cyms in the same GH. One's kept
> at 60 deg minimum and the other at 45-50 minimum. The cyms grow very well
> with epis, some dendrobs, roses, mums, winter bulbs and overwintering tubs
> of things like hibiscus and bougainvillea. Of course, there are
> microclimates that accomodate more temps even with the HAF fans going full
> blast.
> Thanks again
> Gary
>
> "Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
> news:v5udnXN6WLAITkPenZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>> Phal minus would probably like to be on cork better than in a pot
>> However, cork kept moist to the point of fostering a little moss colony
>> around the roots. I have seen this plant drop al leaves and then restart
>> a crown months later. I have also seen this plant make root kiekies
>> inches away from the central crown. I have seen Phal lobbii do this too.
>> For this reason I am afraid to declare a plant dead just because there is
>> nothing left but a tag and a bit of fleshy root tissue clinging to an old
>> tree branch
>>
>> It is possible for a plant to like both being mounted and lots of
>> moisture. I think the luedde likes being mounted better than being in a
>> pot, but I would not grow it as damp as a minus.
>>
>> Phal Luedde... They tend to make long ever-growing spikes that form
>> kiekies very easily. They make shorter branching spikes from the nodes
>> and bloom on these in the early spring around here and then make some
>> more kiekies. I have one that is a great grand mother and still has all
>> her daughters and grand daughters, etc. attached. It is grown in an open
>> 8 inch wire basket...lots of air around the roots. It gets treated to
>> the same temps all my Phals (about 63 to 65 degree winter nights and 80
>> to 90 during the day in the summer. It gets watered when the bark and
>> visible roots start to look dry, which is 3 to 7 times a week depending
>> on the season.
>>
>> V_coerulea, I think it would be hard to grow and bloom cymbidiums in the
>> same greenhouse as you grow Phals. All the cymbidiums I ever met dropped
>> their buds when night temps got into the lower to mid 60 and the Phals I
>> know drop their buds when the night temps get lower than the mid 60s.
>> But I have not tried cymbidiums in many many years. Maybe their attitude
>> has improved in the ensuing decades since I first tried them. I know
>> there must be some warmth tolerant hybrids out there now.
>>
>> "V_coerulea" <gwills13 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:9wyDf.10843$eY5.367 [at] bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>> Pretty much standard but I don't let the temp drop on them like the
>>> hybrids. I haven't had the nerve to try any mounted since I killed a
>>> nice Phal minus on cork. Couldn't keep it moist enough.
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> "Diana Kulaga" <diandfrankcat [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:bMuDf.15900$dF5.6266 [at] bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>> Thanks, Gary. Pretty much standard Phal care then, aside from hanging
>>>> it sideways. I do that with some Phals now, and also have some mounted.
>>>> No crown rot, ever.....
>>>>
>>>> Diana
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Yes, I think it's close to terminal. Thanks for the tip. Cool growing phals
aren't very common are they?
Gary

"Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
news:GKqdnbe6Cqsj9ELenZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
> multiple greenhouses. now that's a serious illness.
>
> Phal minus is rumored to be a cool growing species. But like you say,
> that is relative. Good plant for cool spot in warm house.
>
> "V_coerulea" <gwills13 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:w9JDf.6692$fZ2.5820 [at] bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> Thanks for the info Al. Maybe I'll try another minus soon. They are great
>> looking plants. I don't keep the phals and cyms in the same GH. One's
>> kept at 60 deg minimum and the other at 45-50 minimum. The cyms grow very
>> well with epis, some dendrobs, roses, mums, winter bulbs and
>> overwintering tubs of things like hibiscus and bougainvillea. Of course,
>> there are microclimates that accomodate more temps even with the HAF fans
>> going full blast.
>> Thanks again
>> Gary
>>
>> "Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
>> news:v5udnXN6WLAITkPenZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>>> Phal minus would probably like to be on cork better than in a pot
>>> However, cork kept moist to the point of fostering a little moss colony
>>> around the roots. I have seen this plant drop al leaves and then
>>> restart a crown months later. I have also seen this plant make root
>>> kiekies inches away from the central crown. I have seen Phal lobbii do
>>> this too. For this reason I am afraid to declare a plant dead just
>>> because there is nothing left but a tag and a bit of fleshy root tissue
>>> clinging to an old tree branch
>>>
>>> It is possible for a plant to like both being mounted and lots of
>>> moisture. I think the luedde likes being mounted better than being in a
>>> pot, but I would not grow it as damp as a minus.
>>>
>>> Phal Luedde... They tend to make long ever-growing spikes that form
>>> kiekies very easily. They make shorter branching spikes from the nodes
>>> and bloom on these in the early spring around here and then make some
>>> more kiekies. I have one that is a great grand mother and still has all
>>> her daughters and grand daughters, etc. attached. It is grown in an
>>> open 8 inch wire basket...lots of air around the roots. It gets treated
>>> to the same temps all my Phals (about 63 to 65 degree winter nights and
>>> 80 to 90 during the day in the summer. It gets watered when the bark
>>> and visible roots start to look dry, which is 3 to 7 times a week
>>> depending on the season.
>>>
>>> V_coerulea, I think it would be hard to grow and bloom cymbidiums in the
>>> same greenhouse as you grow Phals. All the cymbidiums I ever met
>>> dropped their buds when night temps got into the lower to mid 60 and the
>>> Phals I know drop their buds when the night temps get lower than the mid
>>> 60s. But I have not tried cymbidiums in many many years. Maybe their
>>> attitude has improved in the ensuing decades since I first tried them.
>>> I know there must be some warmth tolerant hybrids out there now.
>>>
>>> "V_coerulea" <gwills13 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:9wyDf.10843$eY5.367 [at] bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>>>> Pretty much standard but I don't let the temp drop on them like the
>>>> hybrids. I haven't had the nerve to try any mounted since I killed a
>>>> nice Phal minus on cork. Couldn't keep it moist enough.
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> "Diana Kulaga" <diandfrankcat [at] bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:bMuDf.15900$dF5.6266 [at] bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>>> Thanks, Gary. Pretty much standard Phal care then, aside from hanging
>>>>> it sideways. I do that with some Phals now, and also have some
>>>>> mounted. No crown rot, ever.....
>>>>>
>>>>> Diana
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Thanks, everyone!

Diana