Has anyone else gotten the eAOS award program? Any input?

K Barrett

K Barrett wrote:
> Has anyone else gotten the eAOS award program? Any input?
>
> K Barrett
>
>
Ordered it several weeks ago, haven't seen it yet.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

"Rob" <rob [at] littlefrogfarm.com> wrote in message
news:e2o5t6$8ea$1 [at] news.msu.edu...
>K Barrett wrote:
>> Has anyone else gotten the eAOS award program? Any input?
>>
>> K Barrett
> Ordered it several weeks ago, haven't seen it yet.
>
> Rob

I got a call today that they were printing up a bunch of new CDs and will
ship it when they have the CDs... She made it sound like they would ship in
the next few days. I hope so. I'd like to have it for the opening of the
California Sierra Nevada center.

K Barrett

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:13:29 -0700, "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:

>"Rob" <rob [at] littlefrogfarm.com> wrote in message
>news:e2o5t6$8ea$1 [at] news.msu.edu...
>>K Barrett wrote:
>>> Has anyone else gotten the eAOS award program? Any input?
>>>
>>> K Barrett
>> Ordered it several weeks ago, haven't seen it yet.
>>
>> Rob
>
>I got a call today that they were printing up a bunch of new CDs and will
>ship it when they have the CDs... She made it sound like they would ship in
>the next few days. I hope so. I'd like to have it for the opening of the
>California Sierra Nevada center.
>
>K Barrett
>

Sent money with Marion Allen to AOS [at] Disney and received mine.
Because I did not have that order number I had the devil of a time
getting it installed. Save all -- ALL -- your paperwork. Somewhere
there is an order number. You have to have the Registration Number,
the Order Number AND the E-mail address as per the order to install.

They are over protective. The data is good the pictures are marvelous
and the program is easy to use with a try or two. I have Orchid Wiz
on the society's system and I can not get it to run in the circles
everyone is telling me it does. So soon I hope to be done grading and
have time to sit and play with the two and get to know them both.

If you have a computer failure you will have trouble getting e-aos
re-established as it is now. I hope they come to their senses and
relax a bit. But to get all the A-Q immediately and see the pix in
color instead of in the binder (once you find the right one) and you
find the pix is B/W. It can be such a bummer to not be able to tell a
thing without the slide in a projector.

The Sanders section is separate from the Awards data. . which is not
as convient as it could be. But it works rappidly.

Updates after show season may be a pain some months. If the update is
a big is they suggest it may sometimes be. We will see how this works
this summer.

I thought you were up and running on Sierra Navada Center. When do
you go "live." Good Luck with that project.

SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

"Susan Erickson" <sue [at] evilsoft.org> wrote in message
news:rrmv421ifq1on4u81bsdsa460qi8um26nh [at] 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:13:29 -0700, "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Rob" <rob [at] littlefrogfarm.com> wrote in message
>>news:e2o5t6$8ea$1 [at] news.msu.edu...
>>>K Barrett wrote:
>>>> Has anyone else gotten the eAOS award program? Any input?
>>>>
>>>> K Barrett
>>> Ordered it several weeks ago, haven't seen it yet.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>
>>I got a call today that they were printing up a bunch of new CDs and will
>>ship it when they have the CDs... She made it sound like they would ship
>>in
>>the next few days. I hope so. I'd like to have it for the opening of the
>>California Sierra Nevada center.
>>
>>K Barrett
>>
>
> Sent money with Marion Allen to AOS [at] Disney and received mine.
> Because I did not have that order number I had the devil of a time
> getting it installed. Save all -- ALL -- your paperwork. Somewhere
> there is an order number. You have to have the Registration Number,
> the Order Number AND the E-mail address as per the order to install.
>
> They are over protective. The data is good the pictures are marvelous
> and the program is easy to use with a try or two. I have Orchid Wiz
> on the society's system and I can not get it to run in the circles
> everyone is telling me it does. So soon I hope to be done grading and
> have time to sit and play with the two and get to know them both.
>
> If you have a computer failure you will have trouble getting e-aos
> re-established as it is now. I hope they come to their senses and
> relax a bit. But to get all the A-Q immediately and see the pix in
> color instead of in the binder (once you find the right one) and you
> find the pix is B/W. It can be such a bummer to not be able to tell a
> thing without the slide in a projector.
>
> The Sanders section is separate from the Awards data. . which is not
> as convient as it could be. But it works rappidly.
>
> Updates after show season may be a pain some months. If the update is
> a big is they suggest it may sometimes be. We will see how this works
> this summer.
>
> I thought you were up and running on Sierra Navada Center. When do
> you go "live." Good Luck with that project.
>
> SuE
> http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

Thanks SuE!!

We go *live* May 3rd. AOS Prez (Art Moore??) will be there and everything.
Whoopdedoo!

I worry about how many computers I'll be able to install eAOS on. I need 3
(minimum). I believe they say they'll allow 5. But I can see that you are
right. They need to relax a bit. I finally registered at orchidweb for the
'members only' portions of the web page and there's really not a whole lot
there to subscribe to. Heck, I have more articles on OrchidSafari than they
have at AOS! (In their archive section.)

Personally I'm looking forward to the new center. People keep asking me why
I'm changing since Oakland is much closer to me than Sacramento is, but
sheesh. I like the people and I like to judge so if there's an opportunity,
I'm there. I only hope there will be orchids to judge! (Given an
opportunity I'll pull some from the 'show and tell table', heck why not?)[
with the owner's permission, that is.]

I don't know *what* the AOS is doing anymore. The costs for the magazine &
membership, the costs for *both* the AQ and eAOS, the costs for an award
(one only needs to look at the Pac Central's web page to see how the fee
increase drastically reduced the # of awards over time.) Heck its
expensive. Follow that up with the New York YTimes' article, and we are
back in the days of the 'Landed Gentry' exchanging prized orchids amongst
themselves. You get to be Countess SuE and I get to be Baroness Barrett.

K

Maybe if they ever switch to just digital photography in a few years then
they can reduce the award prices (I'm not sure they'd want to reduce them,
but if you take out the costs of dealing with film then it's hard to justify
keeping the same price on the awards.)

I can't help wondering if you can't make the same arguments against adding
judging centers that people often make about expanding the number of teams
in sports leagues: you end up diluting the talent and the overall quality
suffers. Will the additional judging centers bring more good judges into
the system, or is the supply of decent judges limited and you're just
spreading them out more?

-danny

p.s. Yes, Art Moore is the Prez :-) He's in our JC so we get to see him
all the time.

"K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Beudnfv4NYBCgs3ZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>
> We go *live* May 3rd. AOS Prez (Art Moore??) will be there and
> everything. Whoopdedoo!
>
> I worry about how many computers I'll be able to install eAOS on. I need
> 3 (minimum). I believe they say they'll allow 5. But I can see that you
> are right. They need to relax a bit. I finally registered at orchidweb
> for the 'members only' portions of the web page and there's really not a
> whole lot there to subscribe to. Heck, I have more articles on
> OrchidSafari than they have at AOS! (In their archive section.)
>
> Personally I'm looking forward to the new center. People keep asking me
> why I'm changing since Oakland is much closer to me than Sacramento is,
> but sheesh. I like the people and I like to judge so if there's an
> opportunity, I'm there. I only hope there will be orchids to judge!
> (Given an opportunity I'll pull some from the 'show and tell table', heck
> why not?)[ with the owner's permission, that is.]
>
> I don't know *what* the AOS is doing anymore. The costs for the magazine
> & membership, the costs for *both* the AQ and eAOS, the costs for an award
> (one only needs to look at the Pac Central's web page to see how the fee
> increase drastically reduced the # of awards over time.) Heck its
> expensive. Follow that up with the New York YTimes' article, and we are
> back in the days of the 'Landed Gentry' exchanging prized orchids amongst
> themselves. You get to be Countess SuE and I get to be Baroness Barrett.
>
> K
>

Digital access to all the award slides is half the battle, in several
different wars, as a matter of fact. And unlike the sanders data, the AOS
award slides are more "proprietary" in nature. It is unlikely that they
will ever show up in programs or publications outside of AOS control.

Once a group of judges sit their lap tops down side-by-side and open the
same picture and see the differences of color that show up on all the
monitors they may consider slide film less necessary than adopting a color
standard for the digital images to make the color as close as possible when
viewed on many different computers. Once there is a color standard for
digital images in place and everybody only looks at the digital images,
slides will go the way of "official portraits"

This new subscription e-AOS thingie is actually pretty cool. Good idea, who
do we credit for thinking of this? And when it doesn't work like we want it
to who can we verbally abuse?


"danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
news:iTV3g.22004$iB2.15646 [at] bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Maybe if they ever switch to just digital photography in a few years then
> they can reduce the award prices (I'm not sure they'd want to reduce them,
> but if you take out the costs of dealing with film then it's hard to
> justify keeping the same price on the awards.)
>
> I can't help wondering if you can't make the same arguments against adding
> judging centers that people often make about expanding the number of teams
> in sports leagues: you end up diluting the talent and the overall quality
> suffers. Will the additional judging centers bring more good judges into
> the system, or is the supply of decent judges limited and you're just
> spreading them out more?
>
> -danny
>
> p.s. Yes, Art Moore is the Prez :-) He's in our JC so we get to see him
> all the time.
>
> "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Beudnfv4NYBCgs3ZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>
>> We go *live* May 3rd. AOS Prez (Art Moore??) will be there and
>> everything. Whoopdedoo!
>>
>> I worry about how many computers I'll be able to install eAOS on. I need
>> 3 (minimum). I believe they say they'll allow 5. But I can see that you
>> are right. They need to relax a bit. I finally registered at orchidweb
>> for the 'members only' portions of the web page and there's really not a
>> whole lot there to subscribe to. Heck, I have more articles on
>> OrchidSafari than they have at AOS! (In their archive section.)
>>
>> Personally I'm looking forward to the new center. People keep asking me
>> why I'm changing since Oakland is much closer to me than Sacramento is,
>> but sheesh. I like the people and I like to judge so if there's an
>> opportunity, I'm there. I only hope there will be orchids to judge!
>> (Given an opportunity I'll pull some from the 'show and tell table', heck
>> why not?)[ with the owner's permission, that is.]
>>
>> I don't know *what* the AOS is doing anymore. The costs for the magazine
>> & membership, the costs for *both* the AQ and eAOS, the costs for an
>> award (one only needs to look at the Pac Central's web page to see how
>> the fee increase drastically reduced the # of awards over time.) Heck
>> its expensive. Follow that up with the New York YTimes' article, and we
>> are back in the days of the 'Landed Gentry' exchanging prized orchids
>> amongst themselves. You get to be Countess SuE and I get to be Baroness
>> Barrett.
>>
>> K
>>
>
>

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:00:26 -0400, "Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote:

>
>Digital access to all the award slides is half the battle, in several
>different wars, as a matter of fact. And unlike the sanders data, the AOS
>award slides are more "proprietary" in nature. It is unlikely that they
>will ever show up in programs or publications outside of AOS control.
>
>Once a group of judges sit their lap tops down side-by-side and open the
>same picture and see the differences of color that show up on all the
>monitors they may consider slide film less necessary than adopting a color
>standard for the digital images to make the color as close as possible when
>viewed on many different computers. Once there is a color standard for
>digital images in place and everybody only looks at the digital images,
>slides will go the way of "official portraits"
>
>This new subscription e-AOS thingie is actually pretty cool. Good idea, who
>do we credit for thinking of this? And when it doesn't work like we want it
>to who can we verbally abuse?
>

Scuttlebutt says that AQ is as doomed as the slides. On the other
hand you cannot pull digital pix out of the E-AOS for the REQUIRED
Judges talks. SO where do I get my slide show ?? (I liked the E-AQ
name better)

The reason is that >award PHOTOS are "proprietary" < ... Yes. But
then truth be told so were the slides of the Awards. And it was
standard practice by a lot of judges to take the slides out and have
them copied. If a judge is allowed to copy a slide for a talk; why
not an E-AOS pix? This will be a problem for new judges and for the
adaptation of the E-AOS.

Many of the "old time" judges don't trust computer transfer of data.
Don't trust digital photos. They know how FILM is manipulated and
photos are true or not. They have seen "art" manipulation of digital
and fear everyone will be that bad. They think they can 'sense' the
true color on a bad slide, but will not know how to do so on a
digital. A good reason to get new, younger, computer savvy judges
into the system.

Also people do not want to travel to have plants judged or send plants
to be judged. They want the judges to be there now and anytime they
want. New judges and new centers are in the new population growth
areas. These are not centered on the big plant centers of the past.
Now that plants can be acquired reliably via Internet orders and
postal mailings, it is not as difficult as 15-20 years ago. Heck even
the plants at WallyWorld are not horrid.

In the Good Old Dark Days of imported plants you sent $100 to India or
some other far eastern address and hoped it was legitimate. You hoped
the plants were not too desiccated when they arrived at your doorstep
and you hoped someone could identify them reliably. OK - So that
sounds like a bad day on e-bay. But the scams were a problem. People
banded together to test a "New vendor" and limit their individual
risk.

Some Centers are having the "age" problem. The younger group is not
training or they see the Judging as a closed society that will not
allow entry. The retiring executives of the past liked the prestige,
now scorn is apt to be the local OS's reactions. And people are not
interested in being tied to such a ridged schedule; you MUST attend
every monthly judging. YOU MUST judge twice (minimum) out of the
center's district. This is not difficult if your on the coast. But
from Denver, I have to go to Sacramento to the west, Omaha, Chicago
etc East or Texas down south. Judges from Florida or the coast cannot
believe we have judges that drive 8 hours to the monthly meeting. We
have responsibility for OS shows that are a 2 day drive. Enjoy the
possibilities if you live where the second closest society is 2 hours
away.

SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

As to danny's remark that adding judging centers is like adding professional
baseball teams, I agree. I worry about dilution, too. But the thing that I
can't get past is that Central Valley people just *don't* drive into the Bay
Area. The traffic sucks and its really too far, not in distance but in time
to get there, especially depending on the traffic. That's why they put an
international airport in Sacramento, LOL!! Not because its a hub of
international fervor, but becasue its more convenient to people who live in
the Valley. I figure if you're not going to drive to SFO or OAK to fly out
on a vacation why would you drive there to show an orchid? So I look at it
in terms of outreach. We'll see what happens. I hope we don't fall on our
faces.

Additionally, if you look at the annual shows the Pac Central judges, they
are all in easy driving range for judges who live down the Peninsula. No
one offers to drive to Reno, or Chico or Stockton or Fresno, or any of the
other little societies in the Pac Central region. I'm hoping they'll 'come
out come out whereever they are' and have us judge their shows (or at least
ask for speakers). Who knows? Maybe more societies will form. Like Steve,
he got the ball rolling on a society in upper New York. They meet at a
local restaurant and have maybe 16 members. Maybe the same will happen in
Marysville or Cottonwood or Weed (there'sa thought) or Rob's favorite town,
Yreka.

As to laptop color, I was talking to Greg Allikas and he said the same
thing. Color between monitors is going to be a problem. I thought
photoshopping pics was going to be a bigger problem, but he disagreed. He
was more concerned that everyone's laptop be on the same page. So we'll see
what developes along that front as time goes by. Actually, the idea of a
judge actually springing for a laptop is laughable. I'm getting ticked at
being the only one at a show with one. (Oh! You have a laptop! Can you
look up the parentage for this cross to the 3rd generation and see if any of
the parents have an award? Then give me the AQs and tell me if there are any
pictures? Or does that have pictures on it? What do you mean I should do
my own research? That you are busy trying to judge your own flower? Well! I
never!) I suppose I should toss in a *G* there so anyone reading this years
from now doesn't think I'm a total jerk. [*G*]

I can't remember who developed the eAOS program. I'm out of touch with the
AOS anymore. I know argh, what's his name... ergh the fellow who did the
original AOS award CD [blank]. Anyway, he did a presentation on it for the
Judges' Forum at Santa Rosa. We'll see if they actually update it as
frequently as they say (monthly?? Bi-monthly? Something like that). Would
be cool if its true. I hope they have a better platform than the AOS award
data program. Everyone here hates that thing.

Interestingly, we awarded a Pot Martha Clarke a few days ago in Oakland.
When I received the latest copy of 'the Orchid Digest' (the magazine) I
believe they have the pictures captioned wrong in the Fred Clarke article.
I believe the one with the flares is Martha Clarke and the solid yellow one
is the other Pot. So award pics can help in other ways. But the point that
the AOS pics will never make it out into non-AOS publications is true.

K

Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote in message
news:o_KdnW3UP7HKL83ZnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d [at] adelphia.com...
>
> Digital access to all the award slides is half the battle, in several
> different wars, as a matter of fact. And unlike the sanders data, the AOS
> award slides are more "proprietary" in nature. It is unlikely that they
> will ever show up in programs or publications outside of AOS control.
>
> Once a group of judges sit their lap tops down side-by-side and open the
> same picture and see the differences of color that show up on all the
> monitors they may consider slide film less necessary than adopting a color
> standard for the digital images to make the color as close as possible
> when viewed on many different computers. Once there is a color standard
> for digital images in place and everybody only looks at the digital
> images, slides will go the way of "official portraits"
>
> This new subscription e-AOS thingie is actually pretty cool. Good idea,
> who do we credit for thinking of this? And when it doesn't work like we
> want it to who can we verbally abuse?
>
>
> "danny" <foo [at] notbar.net> wrote in message
> news:iTV3g.22004$iB2.15646 [at] bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> Maybe if they ever switch to just digital photography in a few years then
>> they can reduce the award prices (I'm not sure they'd want to reduce
>> them, but if you take out the costs of dealing with film then it's hard
>> to justify keeping the same price on the awards.)
>>
>> I can't help wondering if you can't make the same arguments against
>> adding judging centers that people often make about expanding the number
>> of teams in sports leagues: you end up diluting the talent and the
>> overall quality suffers. Will the additional judging centers bring more
>> good judges into the system, or is the supply of decent judges limited
>> and you're just spreading them out more?
>>
>> -danny
>>
>> p.s. Yes, Art Moore is the Prez :-) He's in our JC so we get to see him
>> all the time.
>>
>> "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Beudnfv4NYBCgs3ZnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>>
>>> We go *live* May 3rd. AOS Prez (Art Moore??) will be there and
>>> everything. Whoopdedoo!
>>>
>>> I worry about how many computers I'll be able to install eAOS on. I
>>> need 3 (minimum). I believe they say they'll allow 5. But I can see
>>> that you are right. They need to relax a bit. I finally registered at
>>> orchidweb for the 'members only' portions of the web page and there's
>>> really not a whole lot there to subscribe to. Heck, I have more
>>> articles on OrchidSafari than they have at AOS! (In their archive
>>> section.)
>>>
>>> Personally I'm looking forward to the new center. People keep asking me
>>> why I'm changing since Oakland is much closer to me than Sacramento is,
>>> but sheesh. I like the people and I like to judge so if there's an
>>> opportunity, I'm there. I only hope there will be orchids to judge!
>>> (Given an opportunity I'll pull some from the 'show and tell table',
>>> heck why not?)[ with the owner's permission, that is.]
>>>
>>> I don't know *what* the AOS is doing anymore. The costs for the
>>> magazine & membership, the costs for *both* the AQ and eAOS, the costs
>>> for an award (one only needs to look at the Pac Central's web page to
>>> see how the fee increase drastically reduced the # of awards over time.)
>>> Heck its expensive. Follow that up with the New York YTimes' article,
>>> and we are back in the days of the 'Landed Gentry' exchanging prized
>>> orchids amongst themselves. You get to be Countess SuE and I get to be
>>> Baroness Barrett.
>>>
>>> K
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

I suppose I meant the Photos will not show up in other pay for info
services, like wildcat or that other new one. But I may be wrong there.
But you have a point about internet access to the slides making it easier
for Awarded Cattleya slide images to show up in eBay sites selling rare Phal
orchid seedlings. They may even publish them rightside up permission.

"Susan Erickson" <sue [at] evilsoft.org> wrote in message
news:nal1525jt70ql3t4i5jsor9f5ug2rnm4qj [at] 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:00:26 -0400, "Al" <nospam [at] all.ever> wrote:
>
>>
>>Digital access to all the award slides is half the battle, in several
>>different wars, as a matter of fact. And unlike the sanders data, the AOS
>>award slides are more "proprietary" in nature. It is unlikely that they
>>will ever show up in programs or publications outside of AOS control.
>>
>>Once a group of judges sit their lap tops down side-by-side and open the
>>same picture and see the differences of color that show up on all the
>>monitors they may consider slide film less necessary than adopting a color
>>standard for the digital images to make the color as close as possible
>>when
>>viewed on many different computers. Once there is a color standard for
>>digital images in place and everybody only looks at the digital images,
>>slides will go the way of "official portraits"
>>
>>This new subscription e-AOS thingie is actually pretty cool. Good idea,
>>who
>>do we credit for thinking of this? And when it doesn't work like we want
>>it
>>to who can we verbally abuse?
>>
>
> Scuttlebutt says that AQ is as doomed as the slides. On the other
> hand you cannot pull digital pix out of the E-AOS for the REQUIRED
> Judges talks. SO where do I get my slide show ?? (I liked the E-AQ
> name better)
>
> The reason is that >award PHOTOS are "proprietary" < ... Yes. But
> then truth be told so were the slides of the Awards. And it was
> standard practice by a lot of judges to take the slides out and have
> them copied. If a judge is allowed to copy a slide for a talk; why
> not an E-AOS pix? This will be a problem for new judges and for the
> adaptation of the E-AOS.
>
> Many of the "old time" judges don't trust computer transfer of data.
> Don't trust digital photos. They know how FILM is manipulated and
> photos are true or not. They have seen "art" manipulation of digital
> and fear everyone will be that bad. They think they can 'sense' the
> true color on a bad slide, but will not know how to do so on a
> digital. A good reason to get new, younger, computer savvy judges
> into the system.
>
> Also people do not want to travel to have plants judged or send plants
> to be judged. They want the judges to be there now and anytime they
> want. New judges and new centers are in the new population growth
> areas. These are not centered on the big plant centers of the past.
> Now that plants can be acquired reliably via Internet orders and
> postal mailings, it is not as difficult as 15-20 years ago. Heck even
> the plants at WallyWorld are not horrid.
>
> In the Good Old Dark Days of imported plants you sent $100 to India or
> some other far eastern address and hoped it was legitimate. You hoped
> the plants were not too desiccated when they arrived at your doorstep
> and you hoped someone could identify them reliably. OK - So that
> sounds like a bad day on e-bay. But the scams were a problem. People
> banded together to test a "New vendor" and limit their individual
> risk.
>
> Some Centers are having the "age" problem. The younger group is not
> training or they see the Judging as a closed society that will not
> allow entry. The retiring executives of the past liked the prestige,
> now scorn is apt to be the local OS's reactions. And people are not
> interested in being tied to such a ridged schedule; you MUST attend
> every monthly judging. YOU MUST judge twice (minimum) out of the
> center's district. This is not difficult if your on the coast. But
> from Denver, I have to go to Sacramento to the west, Omaha, Chicago
> etc East or Texas down south. Judges from Florida or the coast cannot
> believe we have judges that drive 8 hours to the monthly meeting. We
> have responsibility for OS shows that are a 2 day drive. Enjoy the
> possibilities if you live where the second closest society is 2 hours
> away.
>
> SuE
> http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:39:53 -0700, "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:

>As to danny's remark that adding judging centers is like adding professional
>baseball teams, I agree. I worry about dilution, too. But the thing that I
>can't get past is that Central Valley people just *don't* drive into the Bay
>Area. The traffic sucks and its really too far, not in distance but in time
>to get there, especially depending on the traffic. That's why they put an
>international airport in Sacramento, LOL!! Not because its a hub of
>international fervor, but becasue its more convenient to people who live in
>the Valley. I figure if you're not going to drive to SFO or OAK to fly out
>on a vacation why would you drive there to show an orchid? So I look at it
>in terms of outreach. We'll see what happens. I hope we don't fall on our
>faces.
>
>Additionally, if you look at the annual shows the Pac Central judges, they
>are all in easy driving range for judges who live down the Peninsula. No
>one offers to drive to Reno, or Chico or Stockton or Fresno, or any of the
>other little societies in the Pac Central region. I'm hoping they'll 'come
>out come out whereever they are' and have us judge their shows (or at least
>ask for speakers). Who knows? Maybe more societies will form. Like Steve,
>he got the ball rolling on a society in upper New York. They meet at a
>local restaurant and have maybe 16 members. Maybe the same will happen in
>Marysville or Cottonwood or Weed (there'sa thought) or Rob's favorite town,
>Yreka.
>
>As to laptop color, I was talking to Greg Allikas and he said the same
>thing. Color between monitors is going to be a problem. I thought
>photoshopping pics was going to be a bigger problem, but he disagreed. He
>was more concerned that everyone's laptop be on the same page. So we'll see
>what developes along that front as time goes by. Actually, the idea of a
>judge actually springing for a laptop is laughable. I'm getting ticked at
>being the only one at a show with one. (Oh! You have a laptop! Can you
>look up the parentage for this cross to the 3rd generation and see if any of
>the parents have an award? Then give me the AQs and tell me if there are any
>pictures? Or does that have pictures on it? What do you mean I should do
>my own research? That you are busy trying to judge your own flower? Well! I
>never!) I suppose I should toss in a *G* there so anyone reading this years
>from now doesn't think I'm a total jerk. [*G*]
>
>I can't remember who developed the eAOS program. I'm out of touch with the
>AOS anymore. I know argh, what's his name... ergh the fellow who did the
>original AOS award CD [blank]. Anyway, he did a presentation on it for the
>Judges' Forum at Santa Rosa. We'll see if they actually update it as
>frequently as they say (monthly?? Bi-monthly? Something like that). Would
>be cool if its true. I hope they have a better platform than the AOS award
>data program. Everyone here hates that thing.
>
>Interestingly, we awarded a Pot Martha Clarke a few days ago in Oakland.
>When I received the latest copy of 'the Orchid Digest' (the magazine) I
>believe they have the pictures captioned wrong in the Fred Clarke article.
>I believe the one with the flares is Martha Clarke and the solid yellow one
>is the other Pot. So award pics can help in other ways. But the point that
>the AOS pics will never make it out into non-AOS publications is true.
>
>K

Don't kill the messenger - But you are to install this on ONLY 2
machines. And they have controls. On the other side of the coin -
they said the JC's would each get two copies.

I take my machine to all judgings... our center has one machine, 3 of
us bring our own laptops with our own installed software. I guess
having a couple of AOS Committee members (Tech, Lib, and Exec, I
think) has rubbed off on the rest of us.

But John and I use 3 laptops when we register plants for the OS's
show. I would rather have E-AOS on my desktop, so now it is a debate.
His machine, mine or the laptops we use to register.. We have it on
one laptop and I think it will go on one desktop.

The promised update rate is Monthly. It is to be the prelim for the
next AQ. They think they will have enough information together to
make a download. Also with the photos, it will take a while to
download the update.

SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

"Susan Erickson" <sue [at] evilsoft.org> wrote in message
news:sb3352571h5f5199hrngrpai2aed77720m [at] 4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:39:53 -0700, "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>As to danny's remark that adding judging centers is like adding
>>professional
>>baseball teams, I agree. I worry about dilution, too. But the thing that
>>I
>>can't get past is that Central Valley people just *don't* drive into the
>>Bay
>>Area. The traffic sucks and its really too far, not in distance but in
>>time
>>to get there, especially depending on the traffic. That's why they put an
>>international airport in Sacramento, LOL!! Not because its a hub of
>>international fervor, but becasue its more convenient to people who live
>>in
>>the Valley. I figure if you're not going to drive to SFO or OAK to fly
>>out
>>on a vacation why would you drive there to show an orchid? So I look at
>>it
>>in terms of outreach. We'll see what happens. I hope we don't fall on our
>>faces.
>>
>>Additionally, if you look at the annual shows the Pac Central judges, they
>>are all in easy driving range for judges who live down the Peninsula. No
>>one offers to drive to Reno, or Chico or Stockton or Fresno, or any of the
>>other little societies in the Pac Central region. I'm hoping they'll
>>'come
>>out come out whereever they are' and have us judge their shows (or at
>>least
>>ask for speakers). Who knows? Maybe more societies will form. Like
>>Steve,
>>he got the ball rolling on a society in upper New York. They meet at a
>>local restaurant and have maybe 16 members. Maybe the same will happen in
>>Marysville or Cottonwood or Weed (there'sa thought) or Rob's favorite
>>town,
>>Yreka.
>>
>>As to laptop color, I was talking to Greg Allikas and he said the same
>>thing. Color between monitors is going to be a problem. I thought
>>photoshopping pics was going to be a bigger problem, but he disagreed. He
>>was more concerned that everyone's laptop be on the same page. So we'll
>>see
>>what developes along that front as time goes by. Actually, the idea of a
>>judge actually springing for a laptop is laughable. I'm getting ticked at
>>being the only one at a show with one. (Oh! You have a laptop! Can you
>>look up the parentage for this cross to the 3rd generation and see if any
>>of
>>the parents have an award? Then give me the AQs and tell me if there are
>>any
>>pictures? Or does that have pictures on it? What do you mean I should do
>>my own research? That you are busy trying to judge your own flower? Well!
>>I
>>never!) I suppose I should toss in a *G* there so anyone reading this
>>years
>>from now doesn't think I'm a total jerk. [*G*]
>>
>>I can't remember who developed the eAOS program. I'm out of touch with the
>>AOS anymore. I know argh, what's his name... ergh the fellow who did the
>>original AOS award CD [blank]. Anyway, he did a presentation on it for the
>>Judges' Forum at Santa Rosa. We'll see if they actually update it as
>>frequently as they say (monthly?? Bi-monthly? Something like that). Would
>>be cool if its true. I hope they have a better platform than the AOS
>>award
>>data program. Everyone here hates that thing.
>>
>>Interestingly, we awarded a Pot Martha Clarke a few days ago in Oakland.
>>When I received the latest copy of 'the Orchid Digest' (the magazine) I
>>believe they have the pictures captioned wrong in the Fred Clarke article.
>>I believe the one with the flares is Martha Clarke and the solid yellow
>>one
>>is the other Pot. So award pics can help in other ways. But the point
>>that
>>the AOS pics will never make it out into non-AOS publications is true.
>>
>>K
>
> Don't kill the messenger - But you are to install this on ONLY 2
> machines. And they have controls. On the other side of the coin -
> they said the JC's would each get two copies.
>
> I take my machine to all judgings... our center has one machine, 3 of
> us bring our own laptops with our own installed software. I guess
> having a couple of AOS Committee members (Tech, Lib, and Exec, I
> think) has rubbed off on the rest of us.
>
> But John and I use 3 laptops when we register plants for the OS's
> show. I would rather have E-AOS on my desktop, so now it is a debate.
> His machine, mine or the laptops we use to register.. We have it on
> one laptop and I think it will go on one desktop.
>
> The promised update rate is Monthly. It is to be the prelim for the
> next AQ. They think they will have enough information together to
> make a download. Also with the photos, it will take a while to
> download the update.
>
> SuE
> http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

Give us a minute, I'm sure someone here will figure a fiddle around the
limitation, (wink).(We've done it before.) Why oh why they have someone
outside Silicon Valley write their code is beyond me. *G*

I'll let you know

K

Folks,

Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience has
been uniformly bad.

First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to install
the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears on the packing
slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.

Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email. Well,
at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam Giust *AND*
Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very poorly thought out
and could someone please look up that order #, because I deleted the email,
and by the way, why didn't you offer to look that order # up as part of your
original reply?

No word after two days from either of them.

I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales confirmation
email from the AOS and was able to install the program.

I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of time
to a freakin' DOS window.

Then I ran the program.

If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would have
returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.

It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database that
I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from 1992! It has a
negative usability rating in my book.

At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They Don't
Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at this point
will make them see the light.

Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to improve
rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly responsive to
comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding rapidly. This
really is a case of you get what you pay for.

......My $3 (adjusted for inflation)

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I probably
won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".

Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree, instead
of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only shortcoming compared
to WildCatt.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> Folks,
>
> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience has
> been uniformly bad.
>
> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to install
> the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears on the
> packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>
> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam Giust
> *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very poorly
> thought out and could someone please look up that order #, because I
> deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to look that order
> # up as part of your original reply?
>
> No word after two days from either of them.
>
> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales confirmation
> email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>
> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>
> Then I ran the program.
>
> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would have
> returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>
> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from 1992!
> It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>
> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They Don't
> Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at this point
> will make them see the light.
>
> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>
> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>
> -Eric in SF
> www.orchidphotos.org
>

You click on teh hybrid you want to know about and that opens up a second
window. You can stack the windows, too.

So for example, if you put in V. Robert's Delight (note you have to use the
apostrophe. If you are ever unsure about whether punctuation is required in
a name you just search on some other version of the name (like 'delight' and
it will return every registered plant with 'delight' in the name. you
scroll down the list and choose the one you want)

For V Robert's Delight Orchidwiz will return 7 or so generations for the
hybrid in the TEXT tree. There will be a couple of hybrids listed at the
end. Click on the hybrid (node) and a second window will come up with that
tree. You can stack up windows and move them around in order to go through
your research. In the picture tree you can only get 3 generations or so,
but again, if you click on the hybrid you want to research it will open a
second window and continue farther into the plant's background.

K
"Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I probably
>won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>
> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only shortcoming
> compared to WildCatt.
>
> --
>
> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>
>
> "Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>> Folks,
>>
>> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience
>> has been uniformly bad.
>>
>> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
>> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to
>> install the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears on
>> the packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>>
>> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
>> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam
>> Giust *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very
>> poorly thought out and could someone please look up that order #, because
>> I deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to look that
>> order # up as part of your original reply?
>>
>> No word after two days from either of them.
>>
>> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales confirmation
>> email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>>
>> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
>> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>>
>> Then I ran the program.
>>
>> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would have
>> returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>>
>> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
>> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from 1992!
>> It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>>
>> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They Don't
>> Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at this point
>> will make them see the light.
>>
>> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
>> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
>> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
>> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>>
>> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>>
>> -Eric in SF
>> www.orchidphotos.org
>>
>
>

Ray,

Kathy explained it beautifully. Don't be shy about clicking on things in
OrchidWiz - many times it will do something you want.

I'll let Alex know that an easier interface for seeing a full family tree is
important.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I probably
>won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>
> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only shortcoming
> compared to WildCatt.

Ray,

Like I said, it *DOES* have 11,000+ awards slides, and that alone does make
it worth the hassle. There are photos of species in this compilation that
have never been made publicly available.

The program does give an opening disclaimer that the taxonomy might not be
right, and the disclaimer also says that they have no plans to go back and
correct the old taxonomy, but it's still useful, IMO. They are going to go
into the future referencing the Kew taxonomy. (There are a million arguments
surrounding that decision, too)

-Eric

"Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I probably
>won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>
> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only shortcoming
> compared to WildCatt.
>
> --
>
> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>
>
> "Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>> Folks,
>>
>> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience
>> has been uniformly bad.
>>
>> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
>> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to
>> install the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears on
>> the packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>>
>> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
>> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam
>> Giust *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very
>> poorly thought out and could someone please look up that order #, because
>> I deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to look that
>> order # up as part of your original reply?
>>
>> No word after two days from either of them.
>>
>> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales confirmation
>> email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>>
>> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
>> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>>
>> Then I ran the program.
>>
>> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would have
>> returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>>
>> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
>> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from 1992!
>> It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>>
>> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They Don't
>> Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at this point
>> will make them see the light.
>>
>> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
>> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
>> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
>> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>>
>> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>>
>> -Eric in SF
>> www.orchidphotos.org
>>
>
>

I'm aware of that, Kathy. I meant is there a way to get ALL generations in
a single view.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:npGdnUFVROs7W8HZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> You click on teh hybrid you want to know about and that opens up a second
> window. You can stack the windows, too.
>
> So for example, if you put in V. Robert's Delight (note you have to use
> the apostrophe. If you are ever unsure about whether punctuation is
> required in a name you just search on some other version of the name (like
> 'delight' and it will return every registered plant with 'delight' in the
> name. you scroll down the list and choose the one you want)
>
> For V Robert's Delight Orchidwiz will return 7 or so generations for the
> hybrid in the TEXT tree. There will be a couple of hybrids listed at the
> end. Click on the hybrid (node) and a second window will come up with that
> tree. You can stack up windows and move them around in order to go through
> your research. In the picture tree you can only get 3 generations or so,
> but again, if you click on the hybrid you want to research it will open a
> second window and continue farther into the plant's background.
>
> K
> "Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
> news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I probably
>>won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>>
>> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
>> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only
>> shortcoming compared to WildCatt.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
>> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>>
>>
>> "Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience
>>> has been uniformly bad.
>>>
>>> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
>>> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to
>>> install the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears on
>>> the packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>>>
>>> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
>>> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam
>>> Giust *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very
>>> poorly thought out and could someone please look up that order #,
>>> because I deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to
>>> look that order # up as part of your original reply?
>>>
>>> No word after two days from either of them.
>>>
>>> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales confirmation
>>> email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>>>
>>> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
>>> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>>>
>>> Then I ran the program.
>>>
>>> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would
>>> have returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>>>
>>> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
>>> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from 1992!
>>> It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>>>
>>> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They
>>> Don't Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at this
>>> point will make them see the light.
>>>
>>> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
>>> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
>>> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
>>> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>>>
>>> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>>>
>>> -Eric in SF
>>> www.orchidphotos.org
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Eric - don't hold back - tell us what you really think!

David

"Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> Folks,
>
> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience has
> been uniformly bad.
>
> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to install
> the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears on the
> packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>
> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam Giust
> *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very poorly
> thought out and could someone please look up that order #, because I
> deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to look that order
> # up as part of your original reply?
>
> No word after two days from either of them.
>
> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales confirmation
> email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>
> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>
> Then I ran the program.
>
> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would have
> returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>
> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from 1992!
> It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>
> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They Don't
> Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at this point
> will make them see the light.
>
> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>
> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>
> -Eric in SF
> www.orchidphotos.org
>

Good to see you back Eric. Hope you had fun! I just got my eAOS CD in the
mail yesterday so I haven't had a chance to install it yet, but some
comments from people at the Pac Central say that some of the info available
in Wildcatt or OrchidWiz - in terms of species make up of a hybrid - is
lacking. IMHO the only reason to have this is the AOS award photos. But I
really shouldn't say anything untill I install the program.

K Barrett

"Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> Folks,
>
> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience has
> been uniformly bad.
>
> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to install
> the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears on the
> packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>
> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam Giust
> *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very poorly
> thought out and could someone please look up that order #, because I
> deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to look that order
> # up as part of your original reply?
>
> No word after two days from either of them.
>
> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales confirmation
> email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>
> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>
> Then I ran the program.
>
> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would have
> returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>
> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from 1992!
> It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>
> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They Don't
> Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at this point
> will make them see the light.
>
> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>
> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>
> -Eric in SF
> www.orchidphotos.org
>

David,

Well, as a paying customer for a product I feel there is a certain level of
support I am entitled to. Not only did I not receive that level, I feel like
I am actively being ignored by the AOS on this issue.

I actually made the decision today to uninstall and return the e-AOS Awards.
I gave it the 4-day reflection period and I am still as PO'd at them today
as I was when they first ignored me. I would only cuss under my breath every
time I used it, so why do that to myself?

I'll give the $45 to the Orchid Digest instead. Much better organization.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"David Edgley" <edgley [at] whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:gO6dnUtyX4SEvMDZRVn-rw [at] whidbeytel.com...
> Eric - don't hold back - tell us what you really think!
>
> David

Ray,

Here is Alex Maximiano's response, posted here with his permission:

"Be careful what you ask for. :-) Yes, I could do such a tree but it would
be extremely hard to see. For example, take Phal. H.P. Norton and try
drawing its tree on a large sheet of paper. It will take you several days to
do so, and major rewrites as you work your way back the large number of
generations. You would end-up drawing 240 boxes to enter Phal.
rimestadiana(amabilis) alone!!! Try clicking Genealogy for H. P. Norton. It
will tell you there are 240 rimestadiana nodes in the background.

But that's not all. Once you've completed the chart, your two first parents
will be so far removed vertically you will not be able to see them at the
same time. Sure, I could make such a chart, but who would want to see it?
You'd have to do so much vertical and horizontal scrolling it would become
meaningless.
Wildcatt does not draw a chart going all the way back to the species! That
is a common misperception. I wish people would realize that.

If you have any ideas on how to get a "full chart" to display in a way that
is easy to see, for goodness sake let me know! I mean it. I really want to
do it. I just haven't figured out how. I know how to do the programming for
it; I just don't know how to display it. If you tell me what you want it to
look like, I can program it."

Ray, Alex is keenly interested in getting your feedback - I encourage you to
start a dialogue with him. In the interest of not feeding the spam
harvesters, his email address is on the OrchidWiz homepage.
(www.orchidwiz.com)

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
news:PPGdnXWv2LfAfMHZRVn-tg [at] comcast.com...
> I'm aware of that, Kathy. I meant is there a way to get ALL generations
> in a single view.
>
> --
>
> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>
>
> "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:npGdnUFVROs7W8HZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> You click on teh hybrid you want to know about and that opens up a second
>> window. You can stack the windows, too.
>>
>> So for example, if you put in V. Robert's Delight (note you have to use
>> the apostrophe. If you are ever unsure about whether punctuation is
>> required in a name you just search on some other version of the name
>> (like 'delight' and it will return every registered plant with 'delight'
>> in the name. you scroll down the list and choose the one you want)
>>
>> For V Robert's Delight Orchidwiz will return 7 or so generations for the
>> hybrid in the TEXT tree. There will be a couple of hybrids listed at the
>> end. Click on the hybrid (node) and a second window will come up with
>> that tree. You can stack up windows and move them around in order to go
>> through your research. In the picture tree you can only get 3
>> generations or so, but again, if you click on the hybrid you want to
>> research it will open a second window and continue farther into the
>> plant's background.
>>
>> K
>> "Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
>> news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>>>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I probably
>>>won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>>>
>>> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
>>> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only
>>> shortcoming compared to WildCatt.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
>>> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>>>
>>>
>>> "Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience
>>>> has been uniformly bad.
>>>>
>>>> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
>>>> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to
>>>> install the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears
>>>> on the packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
>>>> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam
>>>> Giust *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very
>>>> poorly thought out and could someone please look up that order #,
>>>> because I deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to
>>>> look that order # up as part of your original reply?
>>>>
>>>> No word after two days from either of them.
>>>>
>>>> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales
>>>> confirmation email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
>>>> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>>>>
>>>> Then I ran the program.
>>>>
>>>> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would
>>>> have returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>>>>
>>>> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
>>>> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from
>>>> 1992! It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>>>>
>>>> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They
>>>> Don't Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at
>>>> this point will make them see the light.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
>>>> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
>>>> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
>>>> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>>>>
>>>> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>>>>
>>>> -Eric in SF
>>>> www.orchidphotos.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

You might consider sending a few $$ to the International Phalaenopsis
Alliance as well. At least they have nice pictures. Thanks for your
evaluation of the new AOS offering. I think I will wait until they either
modernize the "Windows 3.1" interface or force me to subscribe by
discontinuing the AQ.

David

"Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8qKdnWSkQcRzr8DZRVn-qQ [at] giganews.com...
> David,
>
> Well, as a paying customer for a product I feel there is a certain level
> of support I am entitled to. Not only did I not receive that level, I feel
> like I am actively being ignored by the AOS on this issue.
>
> I actually made the decision today to uninstall and return the e-AOS
> Awards. I gave it the 4-day reflection period and I am still as PO'd at
> them today as I was when they first ignored me. I would only cuss under my
> breath every time I used it, so why do that to myself?
>
> I'll give the $45 to the Orchid Digest instead. Much better organization.
>
> -Eric in SF
> www.orchidphotos.org
>
> "David Edgley" <edgley [at] whidbey.com> wrote in message
> news:gO6dnUtyX4SEvMDZRVn-rw [at] whidbeytel.com...
>> Eric - don't hold back - tell us what you really think!
>>
>> David
>
>

Actually, I've conversed with Alex a number of times.

On this subject, who says it has to be a tree chart? I find the text
listing in WildCatt to be sufficient for my needs.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
news:9eKdncuWv8VUpcDZnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> Ray,
>
> Here is Alex Maximiano's response, posted here with his permission:
>
> "Be careful what you ask for. :-) Yes, I could do such a tree but it would
> be extremely hard to see. For example, take Phal. H.P. Norton and try
> drawing its tree on a large sheet of paper. It will take you several days
> to do so, and major rewrites as you work your way back the large number of
> generations. You would end-up drawing 240 boxes to enter Phal.
> rimestadiana(amabilis) alone!!! Try clicking Genealogy for H. P. Norton.
> It will tell you there are 240 rimestadiana nodes in the background.
>
> But that's not all. Once you've completed the chart, your two first
> parents will be so far removed vertically you will not be able to see them
> at the same time. Sure, I could make such a chart, but who would want to
> see it? You'd have to do so much vertical and horizontal scrolling it
> would become meaningless.
> Wildcatt does not draw a chart going all the way back to the species! That
> is a common misperception. I wish people would realize that.
>
> If you have any ideas on how to get a "full chart" to display in a way
> that is easy to see, for goodness sake let me know! I mean it. I really
> want to do it. I just haven't figured out how. I know how to do the
> programming for it; I just don't know how to display it. If you tell me
> what you want it to look like, I can program it."
>
> Ray, Alex is keenly interested in getting your feedback - I encourage you
> to start a dialogue with him. In the interest of not feeding the spam
> harvesters, his email address is on the OrchidWiz homepage.
> (www.orchidwiz.com)
>
> -Eric in SF
> www.orchidphotos.org
>
> "Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
> news:PPGdnXWv2LfAfMHZRVn-tg [at] comcast.com...
>> I'm aware of that, Kathy. I meant is there a way to get ALL generations
>> in a single view.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
>> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>>
>>
>> "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:npGdnUFVROs7W8HZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>> You click on teh hybrid you want to know about and that opens up a
>>> second window. You can stack the windows, too.
>>>
>>> So for example, if you put in V. Robert's Delight (note you have to use
>>> the apostrophe. If you are ever unsure about whether punctuation is
>>> required in a name you just search on some other version of the name
>>> (like 'delight' and it will return every registered plant with 'delight'
>>> in the name. you scroll down the list and choose the one you want)
>>>
>>> For V Robert's Delight Orchidwiz will return 7 or so generations for the
>>> hybrid in the TEXT tree. There will be a couple of hybrids listed at
>>> the end. Click on the hybrid (node) and a second window will come up
>>> with that tree. You can stack up windows and move them around in order
>>> to go through your research. In the picture tree you can only get 3
>>> generations or so, but again, if you click on the hybrid you want to
>>> research it will open a second window and continue farther into the
>>> plant's background.
>>>
>>> K
>>> "Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
>>> news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>>>>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I
>>>>probably won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>>>>
>>>> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
>>>> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only
>>>> shortcoming compared to WildCatt.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
>>>> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience
>>>>> has been uniformly bad.
>>>>>
>>>>> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
>>>>> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to
>>>>> install the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears
>>>>> on the packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
>>>>> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam
>>>>> Giust *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very
>>>>> poorly thought out and could someone please look up that order #,
>>>>> because I deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to
>>>>> look that order # up as part of your original reply?
>>>>>
>>>>> No word after two days from either of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales
>>>>> confirmation email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period
>>>>> of time to a freakin' DOS window.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I ran the program.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would
>>>>> have returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded
>>>>> database that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1
>>>>> from 1992! It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They
>>>>> Don't Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at
>>>>> this point will make them see the light.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
>>>>> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
>>>>> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is
>>>>> expanding rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>>>>>
>>>>> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>>>>>
>>>>> -Eric in SF
>>>>> www.orchidphotos.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

As afr as I know, no. Ask Alex (he's probably contqcted you already)

K

"Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
news:PPGdnXWv2LfAfMHZRVn-tg [at] comcast.com...
> I'm aware of that, Kathy. I meant is there a way to get ALL generations
> in a single view.
>
> --
>
> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>
>
> "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:npGdnUFVROs7W8HZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> You click on teh hybrid you want to know about and that opens up a second
>> window. You can stack the windows, too.
>>
>> So for example, if you put in V. Robert's Delight (note you have to use
>> the apostrophe. If you are ever unsure about whether punctuation is
>> required in a name you just search on some other version of the name
>> (like 'delight' and it will return every registered plant with 'delight'
>> in the name. you scroll down the list and choose the one you want)
>>
>> For V Robert's Delight Orchidwiz will return 7 or so generations for the
>> hybrid in the TEXT tree. There will be a couple of hybrids listed at the
>> end. Click on the hybrid (node) and a second window will come up with
>> that tree. You can stack up windows and move them around in order to go
>> through your research. In the picture tree you can only get 3
>> generations or so, but again, if you click on the hybrid you want to
>> research it will open a second window and continue farther into the
>> plant's background.
>>
>> K
>> "Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
>> news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>>>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I probably
>>>won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>>>
>>> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
>>> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only
>>> shortcoming compared to WildCatt.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
>>> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>>>
>>>
>>> "Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience
>>>> has been uniformly bad.
>>>>
>>>> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
>>>> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to
>>>> install the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears
>>>> on the packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
>>>> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam
>>>> Giust *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very
>>>> poorly thought out and could someone please look up that order #,
>>>> because I deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to
>>>> look that order # up as part of your original reply?
>>>>
>>>> No word after two days from either of them.
>>>>
>>>> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales
>>>> confirmation email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period of
>>>> time to a freakin' DOS window.
>>>>
>>>> Then I ran the program.
>>>>
>>>> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would
>>>> have returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>>>>
>>>> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded database
>>>> that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1 from
>>>> 1992! It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>>>>
>>>> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They
>>>> Don't Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at
>>>> this point will make them see the light.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
>>>> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
>>>> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is expanding
>>>> rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>>>>
>>>> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>>>>
>>>> -Eric in SF
>>>> www.orchidphotos.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Wouldn't it be nice to marry OrchidWiz to AOS award slides?

I think I saw mention of a grex tree with pictures in OrchidWiz. That's
neat. The whole concept of a grex tree is so easy to confuse with a family
tree. Image examples of three to ten flowers per grex in a tree might drive
home the point that they are not the same.

It's a shame our grex record is not more detailed and that it is not
possible to trace a plant's pedigree from cultivar to cultivar within/though
each grex. If I ever go back in time I will try to correct this problem.

"K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dP2dnRlu9oBnmcPZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> As afr as I know, no. Ask Alex (he's probably contqcted you already)
>
> K
>
> "Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
> news:PPGdnXWv2LfAfMHZRVn-tg [at] comcast.com...
>> I'm aware of that, Kathy. I meant is there a way to get ALL generations
>> in a single view.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
>> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>>
>>
>> "K Barrett" <mormodes [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:npGdnUFVROs7W8HZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>> You click on teh hybrid you want to know about and that opens up a
>>> second window. You can stack the windows, too.
>>>
>>> So for example, if you put in V. Robert's Delight (note you have to use
>>> the apostrophe. If you are ever unsure about whether punctuation is
>>> required in a name you just search on some other version of the name
>>> (like 'delight' and it will return every registered plant with 'delight'
>>> in the name. you scroll down the list and choose the one you want)
>>>
>>> For V Robert's Delight Orchidwiz will return 7 or so generations for the
>>> hybrid in the TEXT tree. There will be a couple of hybrids listed at
>>> the end. Click on the hybrid (node) and a second window will come up
>>> with that tree. You can stack up windows and move them around in order
>>> to go through your research. In the picture tree you can only get 3
>>> generations or so, but again, if you click on the hybrid you want to
>>> research it will open a second window and continue farther into the
>>> plant's background.
>>>
>>> K
>>> "Ray" <raybark [at] firstrays.com> wrote in message
>>> news:MImdncY8Nq0YEsHZRVn-qg [at] comcast.com...
>>>>I haven't seen eAOS, and as awards don't mean that much to me, I
>>>>probably won't bother - especially after these such "rave reviews".
>>>>
>>>> Eric, et al - is there a way in OrchidWiz to get a FULL family tree,
>>>> instead of just a couple of generations? IMO, that's the only
>>>> shortcoming compared to WildCatt.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
>>>> Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Eric Hunt" <yeahright [at] nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uNSdnb4BF8rIh8HZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>>> Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Coming into this a bit late, but let me say my e-AOS Awards experience
>>>>> has been uniformly bad.
>>>>>
>>>>> First off, like someone said above, SAVE EVERYTHING. There is an order
>>>>> number buried in your order confirmation email that is required to
>>>>> install the program. This is *NOT* the same order number that appears
>>>>> on the packing slip that accompanies the physical CD-ROM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, I emailed the AOS and was informed that I needed that email.
>>>>> Well, at the time I thought I'd deleted it and I replied back to Pam
>>>>> Giust *AND* Lee Cooke. I told them that their current system was very
>>>>> poorly thought out and could someone please look up that order #,
>>>>> because I deleted the email, and by the way, why didn't you offer to
>>>>> look that order # up as part of your original reply?
>>>>>
>>>>> No word after two days from either of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I finally did a search in Outlook and FOUND that darn sales
>>>>> confirmation email from the AOS and was able to install the program.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't encouraged to see the installer drop for an extended period
>>>>> of time to a freakin' DOS window.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I ran the program.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there weren't 11,000 photos, many of rarely seen species, I would
>>>>> have returned the whole thing and asked for my money back.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has to be the most amateurish implementation of an embedded
>>>>> database that I've ever seen. It looks like something from Windows 3.1
>>>>> from 1992! It has a negative usability rating in my book.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point I really do just give up on the AOS. Put simply: They
>>>>> Don't Get It, and I don't think any amount of work by volunteers at
>>>>> this point will make them see the light.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and I think OrchidWiz is much much better - and will continue to
>>>>> improve rapidly. The owner/developer, Alex Maximiano, is amazingly
>>>>> responsive to comments and feedback and his photo database is
>>>>> expanding rapidly. This really is a case of you get what you pay for.
>>>>>
>>>>> .....My $3 (adjusted for inflation)
>>>>>
>>>>> -Eric in SF
>>>>> www.orchidphotos.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>