Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms are an
option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right. I was a little
surprised by some of the stats quoted here, impressive stuff. It confirms
what we all know, to encourage worms have good availability of organic
material including organic fertilisers, eliminate or at least reduce
dramatically the pesticides and fungicides and easy on the synthetic
fertilisers. Kill your worms and kill your soil. Don't be like me who used
to dump litres of toxic shit onto my lawn and top it off with a high
nitrogen synthetic fertiliser (grass on steroids). Luckily my worms survived
my neglect. Some of the worms listed here are NZ residents so you may not
get them.

http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/TGuides/earthworms.htm

"George.com" <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:e44bge$dcc$2 [at] lust.ihug.co.nz...

> Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms
> are an option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right.

Nobody with any serious interest in the subject has been in any
doubt as to the beneficial role of earthworms ever since the
publication of

"The Formation of Vegetable Mould, Through the Action of Worms."
by Charles Darwin

London, John Murray. 1883 i.e. over 120 years ago.

Links to the full text of the 7 shortish chapters can be
found on here.

http://tinyurl.com/m7qw3

for -

http://pages.britishlibrary.net/charles.darwin/texts/vegetab le_mould/mould.html

However, just as with the true implications of the work for
which Darwin is best known - "On The Origin of Species by Means
of Natural Selection" 1859, that life serves no real purpose at
all other than just well....existing, people also choose to ignore
the possible implications of killing off all their earthworms in the hope
of avoiding worm casts on their perfect bowling greens, or denying any
food to the resident moles who are spoiling their lawns. But then
people are just like that, unfortunately.


> Some of the worms listed here are NZ residents so you may not
> get them.


The only New Zealand worm of any interest to U.K residents
are New Zealand flatworms. Cannibals who since their accidental
introduction into the U.K have shown a voracious appetite for
our native earthworms, while being unpalatable to the likes of
predators such as ground beetles and the like.

http://flatworm.csl.gov.uk/

Although having just read the link, it seems to got itself
a good lawyer and a good agent in the meantime.

Nevertheless, I'd stop while I was ahead if I were you.

michael adams

....

"michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:4cm3mlF16iulvU1 [at] individual.net...
>
> "George.com" <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:e44bge$dcc$2 [at] lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> > Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms
> > are an option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right.
>
> Nobody with any serious interest in the subject has been in any
> doubt as to the beneficial role of earthworms ever since the
> publication of
>
> "The Formation of Vegetable Mould, Through the Action of Worms."
> by Charles Darwin

true indeed however some people do not realise how beneficial worms are
especially, imo, people who grow lawns and pour all sorts of chemicals on to
the lawn and endanger their worms.

> The only New Zealand worm of any interest to U.K residents
> are New Zealand flatworms. Cannibals who since their accidental
> introduction into the U.K have shown a voracious appetite for
> our native earthworms, while being unpalatable to the likes of
> predators such as ground beetles and the like.
> > Although having just read the link, it seems to got itself
> a good lawyer and a good agent in the meantime.
>
> Nevertheless, I'd stop while I was ahead if I were you.
>
> michael adams

we will exchange the flat worm for gorse, thistles, ragwort, rabbits,
stoats, weasels, ferrets, possums and wasps. Though not all your you are
welcome to them.

rob

George.com wrote:
> Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms are an
> option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right. I was a little
> surprised by some of the stats quoted here, impressive stuff. It confirms
> what we all know, to encourage worms have good availability of organic
> material including organic fertilisers, eliminate or at least reduce
> dramatically the pesticides and fungicides and easy on the synthetic
> fertilisers. Kill your worms and kill your soil. Don't be like me who used
> to dump litres of toxic shit onto my lawn and top it off with a high
> nitrogen synthetic fertiliser (grass on steroids). Luckily my worms survived
> my neglect. Some of the worms listed here are NZ residents so you may not
> get them.
>
> http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/TGuides/earthworms.htm
>
>

My new build lawn has very few worms - and I could do with some to
improve drainage, and the general condition of the under-soil. Can worms
be bougth mail order and simple scattered on the surface ? Or have
missed the boat now that the lawn is down and doing well ?

"NC" <me [at] home.com> wrote in message
news:p7WdnRDAOebCV_vZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d [at] bt.com...
> George.com wrote:
>> Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms are
>> an
>> option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right. I was a little
>> surprised by some of the stats quoted here, impressive stuff. It confirms
>> what we all know, to encourage worms have good availability of organic
>> material including organic fertilisers, eliminate or at least reduce
>> dramatically the pesticides and fungicides and easy on the synthetic
>> fertilisers. Kill your worms and kill your soil. Don't be like me who
>> used
>> to dump litres of toxic shit onto my lawn and top it off with a high
>> nitrogen synthetic fertiliser (grass on steroids). Luckily my worms
>> survived
>> my neglect. Some of the worms listed here are NZ residents so you may not
>> get them.
>>
>> http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/TGuides/earthworms.htm
>>
>>
>
> My new build lawn has very few worms - and I could do with some to improve
> drainage, and the general condition of the under-soil. Can worms be bougth
> mail order and simple scattered on the surface ? Or have missed the boat
> now that the lawn is down and doing well ?

The worms should colonise your lawn on their own.
If this is not the case then bought in worms will not colonise it either.

>>
>>My new build lawn has very few worms - and I could do with some to improve
>>drainage, and the general condition of the under-soil. Can worms be bougth
>>mail order and simple scattered on the surface ? Or have missed the boat
>>now that the lawn is down and doing well ?
>
>
> The worms should colonise your lawn on their own.
> If this is not the case then bought in worms will not colonise it either.
>
>

ah, fair enough. Just wait and see then. I have spotted the odd one -
hopefully is an indication of a growing underground city !

"George.com" <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:e46ggm$c96$1 [at] lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> "michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> news:4cm3mlF16iulvU1 [at] individual.net...
> >
> > "George.com" <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:e44bge$dcc$2 [at] lust.ihug.co.nz...
> >
> > > Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms
> > > are an option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right.
> >
> > Nobody with any serious interest in the subject has been in any
> > doubt as to the beneficial role of earthworms ever since the
> > publication of
> >
> > "The Formation of Vegetable Mould, Through the Action of Worms."
> > by Charles Darwin
>
> true indeed however some people do not realise how beneficial worms are
> especially, imo, people who grow lawns and pour all sorts of chemicals on
to
> the lawn and endanger their worms.
>
> > The only New Zealand worm of any interest to U.K residents
> > are New Zealand flatworms. Cannibals who since their accidental
> > introduction into the U.K have shown a voracious appetite for
> > our native earthworms, while being unpalatable to the likes of
> > predators such as ground beetles and the like.
> > > Although having just read the link, it seems to got itself
> > a good lawyer and a good agent in the meantime.
> >
> > Nevertheless, I'd stop while I was ahead if I were you.
> >
> > michael adams

>
> we will exchange the flat worm for gorse, thistles, ragwort, rabbits,
> stoats, weasels, ferrets, possums and wasps. Though not all your you are
> welcome to them.


Wasps are beneficial both as pollinators and as predators of many
garden pests. In fact in their own way, they're as beneficial as
are earth worms.

Ferrets are beneficial to man which is why they're semi-domesticated
as they prey on grain eating rodents such as mice. The same probably
goes for stoats and weasels which won't submit to semi domestication
in similar fashion. Except all are a threat to both poultry and their
eggs. You're lucky you don't have mink which can outdo all three of
these.

Your rabbits are probably from Oz, and date from the day in 1859
when Thomas "Clueless" Austin, released 24 wild rabbits* onto
his farm for hunting purposes. < hoot >




michael adams


....






>
> rob
>
>

"NC" <me [at] home.com> wrote in message
news:p7WdnRDAOebCV_vZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d [at] bt.com...
> George.com wrote:
> > Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms are
an
> > option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right. I was a
little
> > surprised by some of the stats quoted here, impressive stuff. It
confirms
> > what we all know, to encourage worms have good availability of organic
> > material including organic fertilisers, eliminate or at least reduce
> > dramatically the pesticides and fungicides and easy on the synthetic
> > fertilisers. Kill your worms and kill your soil. Don't be like me who
used
> > to dump litres of toxic shit onto my lawn and top it off with a high
> > nitrogen synthetic fertiliser (grass on steroids). Luckily my worms
survived
> > my neglect. Some of the worms listed here are NZ residents so you may
not
> > get them.
> >
> > http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/TGuides/earthworms.htm
> >
> >
>
> My new build lawn has very few worms - and I could do with some to
> improve drainage, and the general condition of the under-soil. Can worms
> be bougth mail order and simple scattered on the surface ? Or have
> missed the boat now that the lawn is down and doing well ?

a rough guide to worm activity is to cut a spade cubed (spade L x W x D)
block out of your turf and hand count the worms in it. 7 or under per turf
block shows a serious worm deficiency. Anything around 23 or over shows
excellent numbers. Be aware you may have to sacrifice your sod for this. A
handy way to encourage worms is organic matter in the soil. A mulching mower
will leave lawn clippings in the soil for the worms. Organic fertilisers
such as pelletised animal poop or blood and bone can also help.

You could try digging some up from another garden (thats a lot of digging
mind) and scattering them across the soil to see if they will take. Depends
on what your soil is like and availability of food mind. Work on improving
your soil and the worms will come.
rob

George.com <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> writes
>
>
>we will exchange the flat worm for gorse, thistles, ragwort, rabbits,
>stoats, weasels, ferrets, possums and wasps.

You didn't get the possums from us.
--
Kay

George.com wrote:
> "NC" <me [at] home.com> wrote in message
> news:p7WdnRDAOebCV_vZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d [at] bt.com...
>> George.com wrote:
>>> Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms are
> an
>>> option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right. I was a
> little
>>> surprised by some of the stats quoted here, impressive stuff. It
> confirms
>>> what we all know, to encourage worms have good availability of organic
>>> material including organic fertilisers, eliminate or at least reduce
>>> dramatically the pesticides and fungicides and easy on the synthetic
>>> fertilisers. Kill your worms and kill your soil. Don't be like me who
> used
>>> to dump litres of toxic shit onto my lawn and top it off with a high
>>> nitrogen synthetic fertiliser (grass on steroids). Luckily my worms
> survived
>>> my neglect. Some of the worms listed here are NZ residents so you may
> not
>>> get them.
>>>
>>> http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/TGuides/earthworms.htm
>>>
>>>
>> My new build lawn has very few worms - and I could do with some to
>> improve drainage, and the general condition of the under-soil. Can worms
>> be bougth mail order and simple scattered on the surface ? Or have
>> missed the boat now that the lawn is down and doing well ?
>
> a rough guide to worm activity is to cut a spade cubed (spade L x W x D)
> block out of your turf and hand count the worms in it. 7 or under per turf
> block shows a serious worm deficiency. Anything around 23 or over shows
> excellent numbers. Be aware you may have to sacrifice your sod for this. A
> handy way to encourage worms is organic matter in the soil. A mulching mower
> will leave lawn clippings in the soil for the worms. Organic fertilisers
> such as pelletised animal poop or blood and bone can also help.
>
> You could try digging some up from another garden (thats a lot of digging
> mind) and scattering them across the soil to see if they will take. Depends
> on what your soil is like and availability of food mind. Work on improving
> your soil and the worms will come.
> rob
>
>
Birds stamping on your lawn are good guides to worms.

--
Please do not reply to this Email address,
as all Emails are deleted before opened.

Broadback wrote:
> >
> Birds stamping on your lawn are good guides to worms.

Although they'll be after anything they can get - grubs etc.

In my garden anywhere there has been compost or organic matter there
are worms a plenty. Where there isn't anything organic there are no
worms. As others say if you put organic material down worms will come.

"Broadback" <wen [at] towill.plus.com> wrote in message
news:4crcraF16vc4dU2 [at] individual.net...
> George.com wrote:
> > "NC" <me [at] home.com> wrote in message
> > news:p7WdnRDAOebCV_vZnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d [at] bt.com...
> >> George.com wrote:
> >>> Some interesting facts for worm denyers. If people still think worms
are
> > an
> >>> option in their gardens or lawns this will put them right. I was a
> > little
> >>> surprised by some of the stats quoted here, impressive stuff. It
> > confirms
> >>> what we all know, to encourage worms have good availability of organic
> >>> material including organic fertilisers, eliminate or at least reduce
> >>> dramatically the pesticides and fungicides and easy on the synthetic
> >>> fertilisers. Kill your worms and kill your soil. Don't be like me who
> > used
> >>> to dump litres of toxic shit onto my lawn and top it off with a high
> >>> nitrogen synthetic fertiliser (grass on steroids). Luckily my worms
> > survived
> >>> my neglect. Some of the worms listed here are NZ residents so you may
> > not
> >>> get them.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.gardenscience.co.nz/soil/TGuides/earthworms.htm
> >>>
> >>>
> >> My new build lawn has very few worms - and I could do with some to
> >> improve drainage, and the general condition of the under-soil. Can
worms
> >> be bougth mail order and simple scattered on the surface ? Or have
> >> missed the boat now that the lawn is down and doing well ?
> >
> > a rough guide to worm activity is to cut a spade cubed (spade L x W x D)
> > block out of your turf and hand count the worms in it. 7 or under per
turf
> > block shows a serious worm deficiency. Anything around 23 or over shows
> > excellent numbers. Be aware you may have to sacrifice your sod for this.
A
> > handy way to encourage worms is organic matter in the soil. A mulching
mower
> > will leave lawn clippings in the soil for the worms. Organic fertilisers
> > such as pelletised animal poop or blood and bone can also help.
> >
> > You could try digging some up from another garden (thats a lot of
digging
> > mind) and scattering them across the soil to see if they will take.
Depends
> > on what your soil is like and availability of food mind. Work on
improving
> > your soil and the worms will come.
> > rob
> >
> >
> Birds stamping on your lawn are good guides to worms.

or they may simply be having a tantrum because there is no tucker in the
lawn for them.

rob

George.com wrote:
[...]
> > Birds stamping on your lawn are good guides to worms.
>
> or they may simply be having a tantrum because there is no tucker in the
> lawn for them.
>
What interests me, though only mildly, is what made you think that a UK
gardening newsgroup needed somebody to announce that earthworms are
essential in a healthy soil.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1147808185.321564.74050 [at] j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> George.com wrote:
> [...]
> > > Birds stamping on your lawn are good guides to worms.
> >
> > or they may simply be having a tantrum because there is no tucker in the
> > lawn for them.
> >
> What interests me, though only mildly, is what made you think that a UK
> gardening newsgroup needed somebody to announce that earthworms are
> essential in a healthy soil.

what makes me think that people will be interested? I suppose because I
found it interesting and I thought others may as well. Because whilst I am a
big fan of worms there was stuff on the webpage I did not know. Other people
may not have known it either. Because quite often I find useful or
interesting info or links provided by users of this newsgroup and I thought
this would be interesting and maybe useful for others. And finally, it was
only in starting to understand the work worms and other organisms do in the
soil that I actively sought to encourage them and look after my soil and
gardens. Maybe someone else who didn't know much, reading about the top
class work of worms, would actively seek to encourage their development.
People on this newsgroup seem to have a diverse knowledge of gardening and
garden matters. Some know it all, some are learnign every time they log in.

Whilst not wanting to second guess you Mike, I would make these additional
comments. Whilst the webpage does mention NZ worms specifically, many of the
comments are applicable to worms worldwide. I doubt NZ worms don't realise
they are kiwis nor British worms that they are poms. Secondly, many of the
people popping in to this newsgroup are not brits. They/we pick up what is
applicable to our gardening circumstances and contribute what they/we think
may be applicable to yours.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

rob

George.com <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> writes
>
>"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1147808185.321564.74050 [at] j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> George.com wrote:
>> [...]
>> > > Birds stamping on your lawn are good guides to worms.
>> >
>> > or they may simply be having a tantrum because there is no tucker in the
>> > lawn for them.
>> >
>> What interests me, though only mildly, is what made you think that a UK
>> gardening newsgroup needed somebody to announce that earthworms are
>> essential in a healthy soil.
>
>what makes me think that people will be interested?

That wasn't Mike's question ;-)

His question was why did UK gardeners need to be told that worms were
good (implication - it's something we know already). I suppose one
answer to that would be that every now and again we have people asking
how to get rid of worms and worm casts in a lawn, and an occasional
poster who gives advice on removing worms from lawns.
>
>Whilst not wanting to second guess you Mike, I would make these additional
>comments. Whilst the webpage does mention NZ worms specifically, many of the
>comments are applicable to worms worldwide.

In terms of numbers of species, I gather that there are few UK imports
to NZ, but in terms of numbers of worms, particularly in heavily
populated areas, UK imports and the species that have spread worldwide
dominate. So there would seem to be a lot of relevance.

--
Kay

"K" <k [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YrDR6bIXp1aEFwLR [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk...
> George.com <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> writes
> >
> >"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:1147808185.321564.74050 [at] j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> George.com wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> > > Birds stamping on your lawn are good guides to worms.
> >> >
> >> > or they may simply be having a tantrum because there is no tucker in
the
> >> > lawn for them.
> >> >
> >> What interests me, though only mildly, is what made you think that a UK
> >> gardening newsgroup needed somebody to announce that earthworms are
> >> essential in a healthy soil.
> >
> >what makes me think that people will be interested?
>
> That wasn't Mike's question ;-)
>
> His question was why did UK gardeners need to be told that worms were
> good (implication - it's something we know already).

his question was actually 'what makes me think that people on this newsgroup
need me to announce that worms are essential'.
I guess I slightly misread his question. What makes me? Nothing, I never
assumed I did need to tell worm lovers that they needed worms in their soil.
I did preface my post by saying that if people thought worms were an
optional extra the info would change their mind. Obviously those who know
the benefits of worms would understand clearly and simply nod their head in
agreement if they looked at the webpage. People who know all about the
benefits of worms may simply have skipped over it. So be it, clearly their
prerogative.

If they did check it out they may have been surprised about some of the
facts. I was. That is where the interest factor may have come in.

I also pointed out my previous ignorant ways. I presumed people would act
much like I would when faced with such a statement, nod their head and
acknowledge someone is learning about the wonders of natural cycles. I
certainly didn't expect people to treat it as a lesson on how to suck eggs.
Maybe some people get a little bristley when they think people are trying to
tell them something they already know. Not my intention to do so anyway. I
would be surprised if people did take it that way, given the general
willingness to share info and advice on the newsgroup. I have not detected
any 'know alls' on the group. I do admit however Kay that I could be wrong.

As for UK imports to New Zealand, if you think only a few you are wrong. Try
loads. Unfortunately when your ancestors (and mine) came to this country in
succeeding generations they brought a large chunk of England with them. Some
of what they bought is good and nice and worthwhile. Some of it was darn
right destructive and a living legacy of the mistakes of our fore fathers
(not that they would have known any better mind). As a nation NZ suffered a
dramatic change to its natural landscape over a short period of time. Quite
a bit of damage was done and we are still putting it right. Thats a by the
way discussion however.

rob

>
>As for UK imports to New Zealand, if you think only a few you are wrong.

I was talking specifically about species of earthworms, and the
information was from a source I trust.

>Try
>loads.

Of species of earthworms? If you can let me know which species of
earthworm have been imported from the UK to NZ, I'll challenge my
source.

I was posting in *support* of your thesis that your quoted url was
relevant to the UK - don't jump down my throat!
--
Kay

"K" <k [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:T35TddE5jKbEFwyt [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk...
> >
> >As for UK imports to New Zealand, if you think only a few you are wrong.
>
> I was talking specifically about species of earthworms, and the
> information was from a source I trust.
>
> >Try
> >loads.
>
> Of species of earthworms? If you can let me know which species of
> earthworm have been imported from the UK to NZ, I'll challenge my
> source.
>
> I was posting in *support* of your thesis that your quoted url was
> relevant to the UK - don't jump down my throat!

if worms only then I will defer to your knowledge as I personally haven't a
clue. We do however have many imports from England (my folks for one) and a
nu,mber of them are now pests (my folks say the same of me). I wasn't
jumping down your throat, just saying that we have been 'lucky' to get so
many british species going ferel out here. Interestingly enough a number
seem to be classed as part of the british heritage and/or are controllable
in the UK. I guess it points to the influence british horticulture has had
(up until recent times) in NZ.

rob

George.com <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> writes
>
>
>if worms only then I will defer to your knowledge as I personally haven't a
>clue. We do however have many imports from England (my folks for one) and a
>nu,mber of them are now pests

>(my folks say the same of me). I wasn't
>jumping down your throat, just saying that we have been 'lucky' to get so
>many british species going ferel out here. Interestingly enough a number
>seem to be classed as part of the british heritage and/or are controllable
>in the UK.

That's a common theme. We equally have a large number of imports, and
some have become pests - often ones which are not pests (and even
struggling) in their country of origin.

Usual hypothesis is that it is absence of predators, but New Scientist
has had a couple of articles recently suggesting that its not absence of
the usual predators per se but that the chemical defences of the plant
are new to the would-be predators in the new country.

--
Kay

"K" <k [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZEYhBJA$sYbEFwxQ [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk...
> George.com <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> writes
> >
> >
> >if worms only then I will defer to your knowledge as I personally haven't
a
> >clue. We do however have many imports from England (my folks for one) and
a
> >nu,mber of them are now pests
>
> >(my folks say the same of me). I wasn't
> >jumping down your throat, just saying that we have been 'lucky' to get so
> >many british species going ferel out here. Interestingly enough a number
> >seem to be classed as part of the british heritage and/or are
controllable
> >in the UK.
>
> That's a common theme. We equally have a large number of imports, and
> some have become pests - often ones which are not pests (and even
> struggling) in their country of origin.

really, like what? I have read some stuff about weeds but animals as well? I
have heard about the squirrel controversy and people remind me about the
very helpful worm we have sent your way. The problem we have with the animal
pests is that some of them, stoats/weasels/ferrets/rats mainly (but also
ferrel cats) have decimated our native bird population, some of which can't
fly. The eating pests, especially possums, but also goats/deer/pigs and
rabbits wolf through our native forests.

rob