I recently purchased a home with a back yard that is concrete with
patio blocks on top. I am considering trying to make raised beds of
various heights for vegetable and flower gardening. Can raised bed be
used sitting on this kind of structure, or do I need to tear up the
bricks and concrete to get to some soil underneath. It seems to me
that raised beds are just an extension of container gardening. Any
advice is appreciated.

yup. an extension of container gardening.
here is my fig grove http://weloveteaching.com/landscape/figs/figgrove.htm
here is my orchard http://weloveteaching.com/landscape/orchard/orchard.html
for less than "trees" use shorter beds. just remember to use drip irrigation in them
and put it on an automatic timer. Ingrid

pvava [at] yahoo.com wrote:

>I recently purchased a home with a back yard that is concrete with
>patio blocks on top. I am considering trying to make raised beds of
>various heights for vegetable and flower gardening. Can raised bed be
>used sitting on this kind of structure, or do I need to tear up the
>bricks and concrete to get to some soil underneath. It seems to me
>that raised beds are just an extension of container gardening. Any
>advice is appreciated.



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You container gardening is impressive and I congratulate you.

But you didn't really address the original poster's questions.
I saw no raised beds sitting on concrete in your photos. And
I read no commentary or caveats regarding the similarities or
differences between the two styles of gardening.

Gather some opinions from here, but also do some Google and
library research. There is a lot of free information available on
raised bed gardening and on container gardening. You are seeking
a system which combines features of both.

Bear in mind that typical raised bed gardens are not generally
as tall as container gardening. That is mitigated by the fact that
the raised beds are setting on dirt/soil/something which is more
favorable to drainage and root development than concrete would
be. :)

Some suggestions to consider:
- Have beds taller than normal. Look at suggestions for pot
sizes for potted gardening. Some plants raised in pots
have 18" or more of potting soil in which to grow.
- Create beds with more designed drainage than with typical raised
beds. Obvious. The beds are sitting on concrete.
- Slightly elevate the beds for better drainage.
- Use superior soil for proper drainage, water retention, and
plant development.
- Consider artificial soil. Avoid almost any so-called "topsoil"
sold in stores. Almost anything can be dried, pulverized and
mixed with a bit of organic material to look and smell a bit
like good soil.
Eg: Clay, river silt, and the black muck from river dredging can
all look pretty but are horrible for gardening. In your situation,
I'd create my own artificial soil and augment it each year with
compost.
- Starting compost piles immediately for the future. Ask
neighbors for yard waste and create as much free compost
as possible.
- Try to design beds whose heights can be easily raised in the
future if you decide that it is needed.
- Design beds which can be fenced easily, for protection from
critters.
- Create a decent irrigation system. Gardening is more fun
when you reduce some of the labor. Besides, those raised
beds sitting on concrete will need more frequent watering.
Never make the mistake of substituting poor drainage for good
irrigation.
- Never walk on the beds. Keep them narrow enough that
you never need to set foot on the soil.
- Consider possible "raised beds within raised beds." The ends
of your beds could be taller than the rest. Or you could have
open-bottomed, soil-filled containers in the middle of your beds.
That way a bed could support both shallow rooted and deeper
rooted plants. The movable, open-bottomed containers would
give you flexibility to rearrange your garden from season to season.
- Depending upon your climate, you may want to consider designing
some beds so that they can function as cold frames.
- Seek free stuff. Some of my free stuff:
Compost materials from neighbors.
"Soil" from discarded potted annuals at the end of the season.
Discarded plastic containers from large nursery stock (obtained
from a landscaper friend who plants shrubs, trees, etc.)
- Start small. Experiment. Have fun.
- At the end of your first growing season, let us know how it works out
for you. We are a curious lot.

Good luck,
Gideon

I am trying my first "square foot" garden and I have two 4x4 ft squares
sitting up on concrete blocks. The vegetables I have in them appear to be
doing well, though it is very early in the process, a slow start here in MA
this year. I followed the guides in the book and web site
(http://www.squarefootgardening.com/) and I can't see any reason this
wouldn't work on a patio or anyplace else. I've only got about a 9x11 foot
area behind my condo for planting, so I look for ways to facilitate a crop.

Jerry

<dr-solo [at] wi.rr.xx.com> wrote in message
news:447ea6b0.90336734 [at] news-server.wi.rr.com...
> yup. an extension of container gardening.
> here is my fig grove http://weloveteaching.com/landscape/figs/figgrove.htm
> here is my orchard
> http://weloveteaching.com/landscape/orchard/orchard.html
> for less than "trees" use shorter beds. just remember to use drip
> irrigation in them
> and put it on an automatic timer. Ingrid
>
> pvava [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I recently purchased a home with a back yard that is concrete with
>>patio blocks on top. I am considering trying to make raised beds of
>>various heights for vegetable and flower gardening. Can raised bed be
>>used sitting on this kind of structure, or do I need to tear up the
>>bricks and concrete to get to some soil underneath. It seems to me
>>that raised beds are just an extension of container gardening. Any
>>advice is appreciated.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
> http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
> sign up:
> http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold& ;qt_s=Group+lookup
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
> website.
> I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

On 31 May 2006 09:43:00 -0700, pvava [at] yahoo.com <pvava [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> I recently purchased a home with a back yard that is concrete with
> patio blocks on top. I am considering trying to make raised beds of
> various heights for vegetable and flower gardening. Can raised bed be
> used sitting on this kind of structure, or do I need to tear up the
> bricks and concrete to get to some soil underneath. It seems to me
> that raised beds are just an extension of container gardening. Any
> advice is appreciated.

A few years ago, I made a raised bed for my mom, who is getting on in
years... it's a simple 4'x 8' x 3'tall box constructed of miscellaneous
1x boards lag screwed to 6 4x4 upright posts. It sits on concrete, is
filled with a mixture of the soil we built in the garden over a 40 year
period (starting with mostly clay), and municipal compost. I added a
drip irrigation system. Per square foot, the yield is better than the
garden ever gave.

Personally, I don't think I'd build raised beds on concrete more shallowly
than about 2.5 ft deep.

Kay

g'day,

raised beds can be done on concrete or brick slabs, all you realy ahve
to do is ensure you creat drainage outlets, by not melding the raised
beds edge to the cement under, and then i would suggest put a rubble
layer down first, cover that with some old fly screen or shade cloth
so it doesn't get clogged up, then sart layering your bedding medium.

i have some pics on my site 'building a garden', and also in the blog
at http://ausgarden.com.

i suppose another analogy is that container gardening is an extension
of raised bed gardening hey chuckle?

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/gardenlen2/

a container is a raised bed. it doesnt matter if it is square or round. it doesnt
matter if it is 18" or 24" or 36" deep.
the only difference is size the depth to the kind of plant, dont put a big tree in an
18"
ALL containers need an irrigation system because of course there are holes for
drainage and they will dry out faster than regular beds. and that doesnt differ if
it is on concrete or not. Ingrid

"Gideon" <zerospam [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>But you didn't really address the original poster's questions.
>I saw no raised beds sitting on concrete in your photos. And
>I read no commentary or caveats regarding the similarities or
>differences between the two styles of gardening.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold& ;qt_s=Group+lookup
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

I guess I wouldnt have them up on blocks. there is more heating of the soil in the
bed, faster drying out, more stress. why have them "up" on blocks? Ingrid

"your1joker" <your1joker [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>I am trying my first "square foot" garden and I have two 4x4 ft squares
>sitting up on concrete blocks. The vegetables I have in them appear to be
>doing well, though it is very early in the process, a slow start here in MA
>this year. I followed the guides in the book and web site
>(http://www.squarefootgardening.com/) and I can't see any reason this
>wouldn't work on a patio or anyplace else. I've only got about a 9x11 foot
>area behind my condo for planting, so I look for ways to facilitate a crop.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold& ;qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

height is proportional to WHAT is being planted. a foot of soil is fine for lettuce,
18" for tomatoes. I have NO "extra" drainage in my round containers, but I did drill
larger holes in the bottom and if any show a tendency for standing water I drill a
hole into the side.
loam mixed with manure is the best soil for containers. it retains moisture and
doesnt either dry out too fast or become "unwetable" like fake soil.
I sure wouldnt "raise" the beds, they are likely to warp as well as overheat too
fast. Ingrid

"Gideon" <zerospam [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>Some suggestions to consider:
>- Have beds taller than normal. Look at suggestions for pot
> sizes for potted gardening. Some plants raised in pots
> have 18" or more of potting soil in which to grow.
>- Create beds with more designed drainage than with typical raised
> beds. Obvious. The beds are sitting on concrete.
>- Slightly elevate the beds for better drainage.
>- Use superior soil for proper drainage, water retention, and
> plant development.
>- Consider artificial soil. Avoid almost any so-called "topsoil"
> sold in stores. Almost anything can be dried, pulverized and
> mixed with a bit of organic material to look and smell a bit
> like good soil.
> Eg: Clay, river silt, and the black muck from river dredging can
> all look pretty but are horrible for gardening. In your situation,
> I'd create my own artificial soil and augment it each year with
> compost.
>- Starting compost piles immediately for the future. Ask
> neighbors for yard waste and create as much free compost
> as possible.
>- Try to design beds whose heights can be easily raised in the
> future if you decide that it is needed.
>- Design beds which can be fenced easily, for protection from
> critters.
>- Create a decent irrigation system. Gardening is more fun
> when you reduce some of the labor. Besides, those raised
> beds sitting on concrete will need more frequent watering.
> Never make the mistake of substituting poor drainage for good
> irrigation.
>- Never walk on the beds. Keep them narrow enough that
> you never need to set foot on the soil.
>- Consider possible "raised beds within raised beds." The ends
> of your beds could be taller than the rest. Or you could have
> open-bottomed, soil-filled containers in the middle of your beds.
> That way a bed could support both shallow rooted and deeper
> rooted plants. The movable, open-bottomed containers would
> give you flexibility to rearrange your garden from season to season.
>- Depending upon your climate, you may want to consider designing
> some beds so that they can function as cold frames.
>- Seek free stuff. Some of my free stuff:
> Compost materials from neighbors.
> "Soil" from discarded potted annuals at the end of the season.
> Discarded plastic containers from large nursery stock (obtained
> from a landscaper friend who plants shrubs, trees, etc.)
>- Start small. Experiment. Have fun.
>- At the end of your first growing season, let us know how it works out
> for you. We are a curious lot.
>
>Good luck,
>Gideon
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold& ;qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

dr-solo [at] wi.rr.xx.com wrote

a container is a raised bed. it doesnt matter if it is square or round. it
doesnt
matter if it is 18" or 24" or 36" deep.

the only difference is size the depth to the kind of plant, dont put a big
tree in an 18"

ALL containers need an irrigation system because of course there are holes for
drainage and they will dry out faster than regular beds. and that doesnt
differ if it is on concrete or not. Ingrid

=================

Obvious. But, once again, you didn't offer advise, especially the
important differences between container gardening and what most
people consider raised beds. Raised beds on concrete which mimic
container gardening are quite different from conventional raised beds.

Hell, conventional gardening is really "container gardening" - it is just
that the container is mighty damned big. :)

And, once again, your container gardening is very impressive. Especially
the figs.

Quit arguing by picking at minutia and offer advise.

Gideon

dr-solo [at] wi.rr.xx.com wrote
height is proportional to WHAT is being planted. a foot of soil is
fine for lettuce, 18" for tomatoes.

==============

Now you are just being an intentional pain-in-the-ass. What is the
difference between your comment above and my comments which
you disparage:
Have beds taller than normal. Look at suggestions for pot
sizes for potted gardening. Some plants raised in pots
have 18" or more of potting soil in which to grow.

Consider possible "raised beds within raised beds." The ends
of your beds could be taller than the rest. Or you could have
open-bottomed, soil-filled containers in the middle of your beds.
That way a bed could support both shallow rooted and deeper
rooted plants.

Can you read and comprehend?

They are up on blocks to see if less bending will equate to more care on my
part :) I'm not too worried about them drying out, about one third the
soil mix is vermiculite and it is a small garden that I get to every day.
Though with the rain here in Massachusetts this year I'm more worried about
drowning than drying. though there are lots of drainage holes in the beds
to prevent that.


<dr-solo [at] wi.rr.xx.com> wrote in message
news:44812ed6.190726906 [at] news-server.wi.rr.com...
>I guess I wouldnt have them up on blocks. there is more heating of the
>soil in the
> bed, faster drying out, more stress. why have them "up" on blocks?
> Ingrid
>
> "your1joker" <your1joker [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I am trying my first "square foot" garden and I have two 4x4 ft squares
>>sitting up on concrete blocks. The vegetables I have in them appear to be
>>doing well, though it is very early in the process, a slow start here in
>>MA
>>this year. I followed the guides in the book and web site
>>(http://www.squarefootgardening.com/) and I can't see any reason this
>>wouldn't work on a patio or anyplace else. I've only got about a 9x11
>>foot
>>area behind my condo for planting, so I look for ways to facilitate a
>>crop.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
> http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
> sign up:
> http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold& ;qt_s=Group+lookup
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
> website.
> I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan