This spring I tried - as usual - to start the veggies indoors. Not as
usual, I had little to no luck with the eggplants, cucumbers, and tomatoes.
Only the pole beans sprouted well. Some that sprouted soon died as though
from what looked like dampingoff...even though I had placed the containers
with soil in the microwave a good ten minutes to sterilize the mix. I never
had this problem in prior years. I just didn't know what was going on.

But then I noticed some volunteer tomato seedlings in the ground outside.
So when we had an unexpected rainstorm some weeks ago, I captured and kept
about three 5 gallon buckets of rain water. I used that on the
containers...now moved outdoors...and lo and behold - sprouts.

The conclusion is that the city water has something that the rain water does
not. The big difference is that the water company started fluorinating the
water last November. Could this have been the difference between last
year's success indoors and this year's failure? Anyone out there have
similar experiences?

"Lawrence Akutagawa" <ltakuNOSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:htofg.32159$fb2.5553 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> This spring I tried - as usual - to start the veggies indoors. Not as
> usual, I had little to no luck with the eggplants, cucumbers, and
> tomatoes. Only the pole beans sprouted well. Some that sprouted soon died
> as though from what looked like dampingoff...even though I had placed the
> containers with soil in the microwave a good ten minutes to sterilize the
> mix. I never had this problem in prior years. I just didn't know what
> was going on.
>
> But then I noticed some volunteer tomato seedlings in the ground outside.
> So when we had an unexpected rainstorm some weeks ago, I captured and kept
> about three 5 gallon buckets of rain water. I used that on the
> containers...now moved outdoors...and lo and behold - sprouts.
>
> The conclusion is that the city water has something that the rain water
> does not. The big difference is that the water company started
> fluorinating the water last November. Could this have been the difference
> between last year's success indoors and this year's failure? Anyone out
> there have similar experiences?

Chlorine is more likely to be the culprit. The chemical will dissipate over
24-48 hours if you fill up a bucket and just let it sit, uncovered. However,
damping off can be minimized by providing some moving air, and higher
temperatures. Did you provide any kind of heat under the pots?

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:swCfg.2712$Oh1.2020 [at] news01.roc.ny...
> "Lawrence Akutagawa" <ltakuNOSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:htofg.32159$fb2.5553 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>> This spring I tried - as usual - to start the veggies indoors. Not as
>> usual, I had little to no luck with the eggplants, cucumbers, and
>> tomatoes. Only the pole beans sprouted well. Some that sprouted soon
>> died as though from what looked like dampingoff...even though I had
>> placed the containers with soil in the microwave a good ten minutes to
>> sterilize the mix. I never had this problem in prior years. I just
>> didn't know what was going on.
>>
>> But then I noticed some volunteer tomato seedlings in the ground outside.
>> So when we had an unexpected rainstorm some weeks ago, I captured and
>> kept about three 5 gallon buckets of rain water. I used that on the
>> containers...now moved outdoors...and lo and behold - sprouts.
>>
>> The conclusion is that the city water has something that the rain water
>> does not. The big difference is that the water company started
>> fluorinating the water last November. Could this have been the
>> difference between last year's success indoors and this year's failure?
>> Anyone out there have similar experiences?
>
> Chlorine is more likely to be the culprit. The chemical will dissipate
> over 24-48 hours if you fill up a bucket and just let it sit, uncovered.
> However, damping off can be minimized by providing some moving air, and
> higher temperatures. Did you provide any kind of heat under the pots?

The containers were sitting atop my computer monitor & stereo amp. No
chlorine per se used here...rather, chloramine was introduced in Feb 2004.
But in 2004 and 2005 seeds germinated with no problem. Fluoride was
introduced Nov 2005 and the problems encountered earlier this year.

Lawrence, last year I had a terrible time with my seed germinating,
and what did germinate damped off. It turned out , in my opinion,that
it was the peat cups and peat pelets. It was the first(and last) year
I had used them. Another thing is the potting soil. I purchased the
best potting soil I could find (I thought) Miracle-grow. Why did
mushrooms sprout in all my pots?????(because they used mushroom
compost (a bi-product of muhroom production) and did not sterilize it.

On the issue of water, a couple bucks will buy you 2 gals of distilled
water, and will be more than enough to get your seedlings going.

The way I sprouted my seed this year is, I have a glassed in
entertainment center. I set me a thermometer on one of the vacant
shelves, Overnight (with nothing operating) thetemperature remained
above 70 degrees. In short I sprouted my seed there with near 100%
germination. Okra sprouted in 3 days, tomatoes in 5. The only
problem is that as soon as the first start to sprout you have to get
them out of there and to a good light source.

Have a good one. SodB!

On Wed, 31 May 2006 22:08:13 GMT, "Lawrence Akutagawa"
<ltakuNOSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>This spring I tried - as usual - to start the veggies indoors. Not as
>usual, I had little to no luck with the eggplants, cucumbers, and tomatoes.
>Only the pole beans sprouted well. Some that sprouted soon died as though
>from what looked like dampingoff...even though I had placed the containers
>with soil in the microwave a good ten minutes to sterilize the mix. I never
>had this problem in prior years. I just didn't know what was going on.
>
>But then I noticed some volunteer tomato seedlings in the ground outside.
>So when we had an unexpected rainstorm some weeks ago, I captured and kept
>about three 5 gallon buckets of rain water. I used that on the
>containers...now moved outdoors...and lo and behold - sprouts.
>
>The conclusion is that the city water has something that the rain water does
>not. The big difference is that the water company started fluorinating the
>water last November. Could this have been the difference between last
>year's success indoors and this year's failure? Anyone out there have
>similar experiences?
>

1. heating mat underneath
2. water from underneath, dont mist
3. fan going all the time prevents damping off
4. cool lights literally right over the top
5. milled sphagnum stops damping off

"Lawrence Akutagawa" <ltakuNOSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>This spring I tried - as usual - to start the veggies indoors. Not as
>usual, I had little to no luck with the eggplants, cucumbers, and tomatoes.
>Only the pole beans sprouted well. Some that sprouted soon died as though
>from what looked like dampingoff...even though I had placed the containers
>with soil in the microwave a good ten minutes to sterilize the mix. I never
>had this problem in prior years. I just didn't know what was going on.
>
>But then I noticed some volunteer tomato seedlings in the ground outside.
>So when we had an unexpected rainstorm some weeks ago, I captured and kept
>about three 5 gallon buckets of rain water. I used that on the
>containers...now moved outdoors...and lo and behold - sprouts.
>
>The conclusion is that the city water has something that the rain water does
>not. The big difference is that the water company started fluorinating the
>water last November. Could this have been the difference between last
>year's success indoors and this year's failure? Anyone out there have
>similar experiences?
>



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"Lawrence Akutagawa" <ltakuNOSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:tnJfg.43973$Lm5.36406 [at] newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:swCfg.2712$Oh1.2020 [at] news01.roc.ny...
>> "Lawrence Akutagawa" <ltakuNOSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:htofg.32159$fb2.5553 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>>> This spring I tried - as usual - to start the veggies indoors. Not as
>>> usual, I had little to no luck with the eggplants, cucumbers, and
>>> tomatoes. Only the pole beans sprouted well. Some that sprouted soon
>>> died as though from what looked like dampingoff...even though I had
>>> placed the containers with soil in the microwave a good ten minutes to
>>> sterilize the mix. I never had this problem in prior years. I just
>>> didn't know what was going on.
>>>
>>> But then I noticed some volunteer tomato seedlings in the ground
>>> outside. So when we had an unexpected rainstorm some weeks ago, I
>>> captured and kept about three 5 gallon buckets of rain water. I used
>>> that on the containers...now moved outdoors...and lo and behold -
>>> sprouts.
>>>
>>> The conclusion is that the city water has something that the rain water
>>> does not. The big difference is that the water company started
>>> fluorinating the water last November. Could this have been the
>>> difference between last year's success indoors and this year's failure?
>>> Anyone out there have similar experiences?
>>
>> Chlorine is more likely to be the culprit. The chemical will dissipate
>> over 24-48 hours if you fill up a bucket and just let it sit, uncovered.
>> However, damping off can be minimized by providing some moving air, and
>> higher temperatures. Did you provide any kind of heat under the pots?
>
> The containers were sitting atop my computer monitor & stereo amp. No
> chlorine per se used here...rather, chloramine was introduced in Feb 2004.
> But in 2004 and 2005 seeds germinated with no problem. Fluoride was
> introduced Nov 2005 and the problems encountered earlier this year.
>

In 35+ years of gardening, I've never heard of fluoride affecting plants.
There aren't that many other variables:

1) Age & quality of seeds. How old? What brand? How were they stored before
planting and for how long?
2) Moisture. I can't tell you how to judge that. It's a matter of
experience.
3) Temperature: You seem to have that covered, although it *is* possible to
get too hot. Baby bottle temp is about right.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
> In 35+ years of gardening, I've never heard of fluoride affecting plants.


Same here. I am simply amazed at what people blame lack of seed
germination on.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

Gardening for over 40 years

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

"Bill R" <no_weeds_brosen [at] iglou.com> wrote in message
news:44805196$1_1 [at] news.iglou.com...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>
>> In 35+ years of gardening, I've never heard of fluoride affecting plants.

He would be a very happy person if he'd buy a copy of Nancy Bubel's classic
book, "The Seed Starter's Handbook".

"Sodbuster7!" <here [at] thebottom.net> wrote in message
news:5t5v72h4g7dq4e4u4e6lhh3ca2un06rkc2 [at] 4ax.com...
> Lawrence, last year I had a terrible time with my seed germinating,
> and what did germinate damped off. It turned out , in my opinion,that
> it was the peat cups and peat pelets. It was the first(and last) year
> I had used them. Another thing is the potting soil. I purchased the
> best potting soil I could find (I thought) Miracle-grow. Why did
> mushrooms sprout in all my pots?????(because they used mushroom
> compost (a bi-product of muhroom production) and did not sterilize it.
>
> On the issue of water, a couple bucks will buy you 2 gals of distilled
> water, and will be more than enough to get your seedlings going.
>
> The way I sprouted my seed this year is, I have a glassed in
> entertainment center. I set me a thermometer on one of the vacant
> shelves, Overnight (with nothing operating) thetemperature remained
> above 70 degrees. In short I sprouted my seed there with near 100%
> germination. Okra sprouted in 3 days, tomatoes in 5. The only
> problem is that as soon as the first start to sprout you have to get
> them out of there and to a good light source.
>
> Have a good one. SodB!
>

Thanks for the ideas. Much appreciated. Given the content of some of the
responses, I guess I did not make clear that the seeds that did not sprout
indoors with the 'city' water have indeed sprouted once I moved their
containers outside and used stored rain water on them. The newly emerged
plants are thriving.

"Lawrence Akutagawa" <ltakuNOSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:a72gg.45185$Lm5.44119 [at] newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Sodbuster7!" <here [at] thebottom.net> wrote in message
> news:5t5v72h4g7dq4e4u4e6lhh3ca2un06rkc2 [at] 4ax.com...
>> Lawrence, last year I had a terrible time with my seed germinating,
>> and what did germinate damped off. It turned out , in my opinion,that
>> it was the peat cups and peat pelets. It was the first(and last) year
>> I had used them. Another thing is the potting soil. I purchased the
>> best potting soil I could find (I thought) Miracle-grow. Why did
>> mushrooms sprout in all my pots?????(because they used mushroom
>> compost (a bi-product of muhroom production) and did not sterilize it.
>>
>> On the issue of water, a couple bucks will buy you 2 gals of distilled
>> water, and will be more than enough to get your seedlings going.
>>
>> The way I sprouted my seed this year is, I have a glassed in
>> entertainment center. I set me a thermometer on one of the vacant
>> shelves, Overnight (with nothing operating) thetemperature remained
>> above 70 degrees. In short I sprouted my seed there with near 100%
>> germination. Okra sprouted in 3 days, tomatoes in 5. The only
>> problem is that as soon as the first start to sprout you have to get
>> them out of there and to a good light source.
>>
>> Have a good one. SodB!
>>
>
> Thanks for the ideas. Much appreciated. Given the content of some of the
> responses, I guess I did not make clear that the seeds that did not sprout
> indoors with the 'city' water have indeed sprouted once I moved their
> containers outside and used stored rain water on them. The newly emerged
> plants are thriving.
>
>

Try aging the indoor water next time, since it requires no effort
whatsoever. If that solves your problem, you win.