Hay, a few questions for those who use hay as a mulch in their gardens.

I found some free hay bales today that were to be throw out so I grabbed
them to use as mulch when the growing season comes around. The bales are
standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was growing at the time of
cutting. I have no idea how old they are, no one could tell me. A couple of
the bales are actually growing grass on the top and all the bales are
starting to go mouldy inside. It is late late autumn here, the cold rainy
season is upon us..

A few questions for those in the know.
What is the best method of storing hay in this condition? I though either in
the (cool dry) garage or outside under a tarpaulin.
Do I need to worry about the mould inside the hay? I have heard the odd
story of hay self combusting when it rots, any chance here you think.
I thought to kill the grass simply by placing it face down and letting the
lack of light deal to it.
Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks
Rob

George.com wrote:
> Hay, a few questions for those who use hay as a mulch in their gardens.
>
> I found some free hay bales today that were to be throw out so I grabbed
> them to use as mulch when the growing season comes around. The bales are
> standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was growing at the time of
> cutting. I have no idea how old they are, no one could tell me. A couple of
> the bales are actually growing grass on the top and all the bales are
> starting to go mouldy inside. It is late late autumn here, the cold rainy
> season is upon us..
>
> A few questions for those in the know.
> What is the best method of storing hay in this condition? I though either in
> the (cool dry) garage or outside under a tarpaulin.
> Do I need to worry about the mould inside the hay? I have heard the odd
> story of hay self combusting when it rots, any chance here you think.
> I thought to kill the grass simply by placing it face down and letting the
> lack of light deal to it.
> Anything else I should be aware of?

You could keep it off the ground so that water doesn't store in the base
and rot it.

<http://www.northernearth.co.uk/81/news.htm>

Taken from the above URL;

SPC; or Spontaneous Plant Combustion...firemen called to a fire in a
living room at Blyth, Northumberland, concluded that the source was a
yucca plant that had suddenly burst into flames. The fire damaged
floorboards and carpet in the room, but the yucca itself survived and is
doing well. The fire service, however, blame it on peat; the plant had
not been watered for several days and the peat in its soil may have
decomposed, giving rise to bacterial activity that generates heat, a
process which can also cause haystack fires. The moral - well, yucca is
not very good for feng-shui, there are environmentally friendlier
alternatives to peat - but if you must have both, water it! [Daily Mail,
2-12-99]



Richard.


--
Two updates tools for 3D Studio Max
<http://www.kdbanglia.com/maxtools.html>

"George.com" <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:e4ml5k$htm$1 [at] lust.ihug.co.nz...
> Hay, a few questions for those who use hay as a mulch in their gardens.
>
> I found some free hay bales today that were to be throw out so I grabbed
> them to use as mulch when the growing season comes around. The bales are
> standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was growing at the time of
> cutting. I have no idea how old they are, no one could tell me. A couple
> of
> the bales are actually growing grass on the top and all the bales are
> starting to go mouldy inside. It is late late autumn here, the cold rainy
> season is upon us..
>
> A few questions for those in the know.
> What is the best method of storing hay in this condition? I though either
> in
> the (cool dry) garage or outside under a tarpaulin.
> Do I need to worry about the mould inside the hay? I have heard the odd
> story of hay self combusting when it rots, any chance here you think.
> I thought to kill the grass simply by placing it face down and letting the
> lack of light deal to it.
> Anything else I should be aware of?
>
> Thanks
> Rob
>
I wouldn't use hay as a mulch - it is, by definition, full of grass seeds,
as it is used as an animal feed. I would use straw which should (largely) be
seed free - it has no nutrition value for animals but rots down to a fine
mulch / soil conditioner.

Chris S

snip >
> > I found some free hay bales today that were to be throw out so I grabbed
> > them to use as mulch when the growing season comes around. The bales are
> > standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was growing at the time of
> > cutting. I have no idea how old they are, no one could tell me. A couple
>
> >
> I wouldn't use hay as a mulch - it is, by definition, full of grass seeds,
> as it is used as an animal feed. I would use straw which should (largely) be
> seed free - it has no nutrition value for animals but rots down to a fine
> mulch / soil conditioner.
>
> Chris S

I was just about to say the same as Chris, dont use it as a mulch on the
garden just put it a corner and let it rot. In the winter we use poor
hay in muddy gateways and the grass seeds germinate in the Spring.
kate

On Sat, 20 May 2006 20:50:03 +1200, George.com wrote:

> The bales are standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was
> growing at the time of cutting.

So have a very high chance of being full of viable seeds from Buttercups,
Ragwort, Thistle (or whatever "garden nasties" grow wild in your part of
the world), and of course the not so nasty meadow flowers.

> Do I need to worry about the mould inside the hay?

Only if you where thinking of using it as animal feed. ie Don't. The
mould is probably the reason they have been given away.

> I have heard the odd story of hay self combusting when it rots, any
> chance here you think.

One or two catch fire round here every year when put out for feed. These
are the big 6' dia 4' deep round bales mind, not one man lift oblong
ones.

--
Cheers new5pam [at] howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 20:50:03 +1200, George.com wrote:
>
> > The bales are standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was
> > growing at the time of cutting.
>
> So have a very high chance of being full of viable seeds from Buttercups,
> Ragwort, Thistle (or whatever "garden nasties" grow wild in your part of
> the world), and of course the not so nasty meadow flowers.
>
> > Do I need to worry about the mould inside the hay?
>
> Only if you where thinking of using it as animal feed. ie Don't. The
> mould is probably the reason they have been given away.
>
> > I have heard the odd story of hay self combusting when it rots, any
> > chance here you think.
>
> One or two catch fire round here every year when put out for feed. These
> are the big 6' dia 4' deep round bales mind, not one man lift oblong
> ones.
>
"Yes" to what everybody else has said. I haven't used hay, but I have
used spoiled big-bale grass silage. I think I'd encourage this spoiled
hay to rot good and proper before using it: put it into a compost heap
in the ordinary way. I rather doubt if you'll be unlucky enough to get
a conflagration. (I'm a little suspicious about the story of the yucca
blaze: I won't be rash enough to say it's impossible, but I'd want to
ask if anybody dropped a fag-end in the pot and didn't care to admit
it.)

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148125616.909596.311360 [at] j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Liquorice wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 May 2006 20:50:03 +1200, George.com wrote:
> >
> > > The bales are standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was
> > > growing at the time of cutting.
> >
> > So have a very high chance of being full of viable seeds from
Buttercups,
> > Ragwort, Thistle (or whatever "garden nasties" grow wild in your part of
> > the world), and of course the not so nasty meadow flowers.
> >
> > > Do I need to worry about the mould inside the hay?
> >
> > Only if you where thinking of using it as animal feed. ie Don't. The
> > mould is probably the reason they have been given away.
> >
> > > I have heard the odd story of hay self combusting when it rots, any
> > > chance here you think.
> >
> > One or two catch fire round here every year when put out for feed. These
> > are the big 6' dia 4' deep round bales mind, not one man lift oblong
> > ones.
> >
> "Yes" to what everybody else has said. I haven't used hay, but I have
> used spoiled big-bale grass silage. I think I'd encourage this spoiled
> hay to rot good and proper before using it: put it into a compost heap
> in the ordinary way. I rather doubt if you'll be unlucky enough to get
> a conflagration. (I'm a little suspicious about the story of the yucca
> blaze: I won't be rash enough to say it's impossible, but I'd want to
> ask if anybody dropped a fag-end in the pot and didn't care to admit
> it.)

I felt a little paranoid raising the issue of combustion. I raised that
issue in terms of storing it in the garage, don't want that going up.

In terms of composting it, sort of defeats the purpose of what I got it for
I think. I have enough good compost, this stuff is to heavy mulch the
gardens. A dumb question here, but I presume you mean the general compost
heap.

I have read quite a few counts of people using 'spoiled hay' as a mulch. Do
you think we are talking lucerne hay here?

rob

"Dave Liquorice" <new5pam [at] howhill.com> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.izkmoe1.pminews [at] srv1.howhill.com...
> On Sat, 20 May 2006 20:50:03 +1200, George.com wrote:
>
> > The bales are standard pasture hay, grasses and whatever else was
> > growing at the time of cutting.
>
> So have a very high chance of being full of viable seeds from Buttercups,
> Ragwort, Thistle (or whatever "garden nasties" grow wild in your part of
> the world)

yup, all the good stuff eh.

rob

I'm glad this question popped up as I was wondering where do you get straw
for mulch.
Thanks


>

> I'm glad this question popped up as I was wondering where do you get straw
> for mulch.
> Thanks
>

In some parts of the country it is difficult getting small bales of
straw, if you have a animal feed merchant or stables near you they will
probably find you a bale or two.

kate

So if I only wanted a small amount could I get it in a pet shop.

"Kate Morgan" <katemorgan [at] btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ed93e865b125164989707 [at] news.plus.net...
>
>> I'm glad this question popped up as I was wondering where do you get
>> straw
>> for mulch.
>> Thanks
>>
>
> In some parts of the country it is difficult getting small bales of
> straw, if you have a animal feed merchant or stables near you they will
> probably find you a bale or two.
>
> kate

George.com wrote:
[...]
> In terms of composting it, sort of defeats the purpose of what I got it for
> I think. I have enough good compost, this stuff is to heavy mulch the
> gardens. A dumb question here, but I presume you mean the general compost
> heap.
>
> I have read quite a few counts of people using 'spoiled hay' as a mulch. Do
> you think we are talking lucerne hay here?
>
I don't know what kind of hay you've read about, but lucerne (alfalfa)
sounds likely: it would have been sown in a relatively clean tilth
after another crop and cut before seeding -- in fact, all hay should be
cut before seeding, in theory: huh!. Lucerne roots well down, and
brings up a lot of nutrients, so I guess it would make good compost.

I'd have thought any hay would look pretty horrible as a general mulch,
even if it didn't get blown about: and I don't even think it would work
very well for water-retention. I really wouldn't mulch with the stuff
you describe until it's broken down a lot and the weed seeds have
germinated or been destroyed.

I said I'd used spoiled silage: that wasn't in an established garden,
but on a patch of desperate stuff that needed conditioning. I was lucky
enough for the spoiling to have killed the weed seeds.

--
Mike.

doobydoobydo wrote:

> "Kate Morgan" <katemorgan [at] btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1ed93e865b125164989707 [at] news.plus.net...
> >
> >> I'm glad this question popped up as I was wondering where do you get
> >> straw
> >> for mulch.
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >
> > In some parts of the country it is difficult getting small bales of
> > straw, if you have a animal feed merchant or stables near you they will
> > probably find you a bale or two.
> >
> So if I only wanted a small amount could I get it in a pet shop.
>

That would presumably be the most expensive way of getting it -- maybe
ok if you just want to do a few strawberries. If you can still find
somebody selling small bales, one should fit in the boot of most cars.

--
Mike.

> So if I only wanted a small amount could I get it in a pet shop.
>
Well yes you could but it would cost you a great deal more than finding
yourself a bale, as Mike says a small bale would fit in your boot, it is
worth trying to find some.

kate

On Sat, 20 May 2006 15:56:39 +0100, Kate Morgan wrote:

> stables near you they will probably find you a bale or two.

Stables normally want to give away "used" straw. B-) Not really the
time to put that down now though, would have been better in the autumn to
let the winter break it down a bit.

--
Cheers new5pam [at] howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148139148.715808.142970 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> George.com wrote:
> [...]
> > In terms of composting it, sort of defeats the purpose of what I got it
for
> > I think. I have enough good compost, this stuff is to heavy mulch the
> > gardens. A dumb question here, but I presume you mean the general
compost
> > heap.
> >
> > I have read quite a few counts of people using 'spoiled hay' as a mulch.
Do
> > you think we are talking lucerne hay here?
> >
> I don't know what kind of hay you've read about, but lucerne (alfalfa)
> sounds likely: it would have been sown in a relatively clean tilth
> after another crop and cut before seeding -- in fact, all hay should be
> cut before seeding, in theory: huh!. Lucerne roots well down, and
> brings up a lot of nutrients, so I guess it would make good compost.
>
> I'd have thought any hay would look pretty horrible as a general mulch,
> even if it didn't get blown about: and I don't even think it would work
> very well for water-retention. I really wouldn't mulch with the stuff
> you describe until it's broken down a lot and the weed seeds have
> germinated or been destroyed.

right, can you describe the last paragraph a little more please Mike. When
you say broken down, are you meaning some process of composting? Is this
like,

in to the compost heap along with nitrogen and break it down to a fine
crumb,
in to a drum like I do with poop and age it seperately,
some form of weathering
some other process I am not aware of?

thanks.

"Janet Baraclough" <janet.and.john [at] zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303039303239446F5BD206 [at] zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <e4n4qa$fnt$1 [at] lust.ihug.co.nz>
> from "George.com" <roblyn [at] ihug.co.nz> contains these words:
>
> > I felt a little paranoid raising the issue of combustion. I raised that
> > issue in terms of storing it in the garage, don't want that going up.
>
> I've seen a whole barn lost to a hay-combustion fire, though
> combustion is more usual in mid to late summer. Since your bales are
> already mouldy, there's no benefit from storing it under cover.
>
> > In terms of composting it, sort of defeats the purpose of what I got it
for
> > I think. I have enough good compost, this stuff is to heavy mulch the
> > gardens.
>
> I've often used spoiled hay as mulch and never had any hayseed
> germination problem, partly because the freerange hens (and wildbirds)
> were constantly scratching in the mulch and and turning it over
> throughout winter, looking for worms.
>
> If the hay was made for stock feed it should have been cut green,
> before the grass went to ripe seed. (As for making/selling hay
> containing ragwort; no competent farmer/stock owner would do that).

thats what got me on the subject, the stuff I have read talks about
hay/pasture hay/spoilt feed hay rather than lucerne. Some people swear off
it due to the seeds whilst others who use it say they have never had a
problem. Pot luck maybe.

rob

George.com wrote:
> Do I need to worry about the mould inside the hay? I have heard the odd
> story of hay self combusting when it rots, any chance here you think.

Not unless you've a large-ish stack. If it's got grass growing from
it, I think it may be past the point! To find out how hot the inside
gets, push in a long metal rod, for instance an electric fence
support, or a bit of concrete re-inforcing bar, and withdraw it from
time to time, and feel how warm it is!

George.com wrote:
> "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
[...]
> > I'd have thought any hay would look pretty horrible as a general mulch,
> > even if it didn't get blown about: and I don't even think it would work
> > very well for water-retention. I really wouldn't mulch with the stuff
> > you describe until it's broken down a lot and the weed seeds have
> > germinated or been destroyed.
>
> right, can you describe the last paragraph a little more please Mike. When
> you say broken down, are you meaning some process of composting? Is this
> like,
>
> in to the compost heap along with nitrogen and break it down to a fine
> crumb,
> in to a drum like I do with poop and age it seperately,
> some form of weathering
> some other process I am not aware of?
>
No, I just meant composted, or at least partially composted, in a heap.
If you've got some dung, that's great: I'd mix it in.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148243869.558260.159960 [at] j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> George.com wrote:
> > "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> [...]
> > > I'd have thought any hay would look pretty horrible as a general
mulch,
> > > even if it didn't get blown about: and I don't even think it would
work
> > > very well for water-retention. I really wouldn't mulch with the stuff
> > > you describe until it's broken down a lot and the weed seeds have
> > > germinated or been destroyed.
> >
> > right, can you describe the last paragraph a little more please Mike.
When
> > you say broken down, are you meaning some process of composting? Is this
> > like,
> >
> > in to the compost heap along with nitrogen and break it down to a fine
> > crumb,
> > in to a drum like I do with poop and age it seperately,
> > some form of weathering
> > some other process I am not aware of?
> >
> No, I just meant composted, or at least partially composted, in a heap.
> If you've got some dung, that's great: I'd mix it in.

right, thanks for that. What you are really saying is get a hot core compost
going that will kill of weed seeds, turn the outside in a couple of times
and, if I then choose, cool it off and store before it breaks down too much.

rob