Anyone got access to the full version? Am trying to settle a dispute about a
white rose 'La Perle' and am having trouble persuading someone there is more
than one shade of white! and that 'La Perle' is not a yellow rose. If I am
to quote numbers I would as soon they be correct :~)
(I just remember there are pages of them, broken down into green whites,
cream whites, blue whites etc)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

"Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
news:4492a57b$1_3 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...

> Anyone got access to the full version? Am trying to settle a dispute about
a
> white rose 'La Perle' and am having trouble persuading someone there is
more
> than one shade of white! and that 'La Perle' is not a yellow rose. If I am
> to quote numbers I would as soon they be correct :~)
> (I just remember there are pages of them, broken down into green whites,
> cream whites, blue whites etc)
>
> --
> Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
> http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
> Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)


According to this link, there's an 884 colour three fan version for
£135, yes £135 and a one fan simplified version for £25

http://www.rhs.org.uk/Learning/publications/pubs_library_col ourchart.asp


On the other hand printers and others use the Pantone colour system
and there are plenty of free charts for that on the Internet.
And from graphics suppliers.

Not much help in other words

michael adams



>
>

On 16/6/06 13:42, in article 4492a57b$1_3 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
"Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote:

> Anyone got access to the full version? Am trying to settle a dispute about a
> white rose 'La Perle' and am having trouble persuading someone there is more
> than one shade of white! and that 'La Perle' is not a yellow rose. If I am
> to quote numbers I would as soon they be correct :~)
> (I just remember there are pages of them, broken down into green whites,
> cream whites, blue whites etc)

Yes, Charlie, Ray has that set of different coloured cards in a green box.
How can we help?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(email address on website)

"Sacha" <sacha [at] privacy.net> wrote in message
news:C0B86E63.31DCE%sacha [at] privacy.net...
> On 16/6/06 13:42, in article
4492a57b$1_3 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
> "Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote:
>
> > Anyone got access to the full version? Am trying to settle a dispute
about a
> > white rose 'La Perle' and am having trouble persuading someone there is
more
> > than one shade of white! and that 'La Perle' is not a yellow rose. If I
am
> > to quote numbers I would as soon they be correct :~)
> > (I just remember there are pages of them, broken down into green whites,
> > cream whites, blue whites etc)
>
> Yes, Charlie, Ray has that set of different coloured cards in a green box.
> How can we help?
> --
> Sacha
> www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
> South Devon
> (email address on website)

Just an idea how many shades of white are given would be usefull,
If you have the time you could try comparing the on screen picture at
www.roselandhouse.co.uk/roses/rlaperle.htm its a good likeness this end! I
just want to be sure that it comes up as a white rose and not a yellow one
(I know the buds are a soft yellow but the flowers are a lovely cream white.
(You may of course know the rose?)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

"michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:4ffnljF1iquodU1 [at] individual.net...
>
> "Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:4492a57b$1_3 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
> > Anyone got access to the full version? Am trying to settle a dispute
about
> a
> > white rose 'La Perle' and am having trouble persuading someone there is
> more
> > than one shade of white! and that 'La Perle' is not a yellow rose. If I
am
> > to quote numbers I would as soon they be correct :~)
> > (I just remember there are pages of them, broken down into green whites,
> > cream whites, blue whites etc)
> >
> > --
> > Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
> > http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
> > Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)
>
>
> According to this link, there's an 884 colour three fan version for
> £135, yes £135 and a one fan simplified version for £25
>
> http://www.rhs.org.uk/Learning/publications/pubs_library_col ourchart.asp
>
>
> On the other hand printers and others use the Pantone colour system
> and there are plenty of free charts for that on the Internet.
> And from graphics suppliers.
>
> Not much help in other words
>
> michael adams
>
Thanks for the thoughts but I sort of need it to be more "Official" if you
know what I mean, The other party is adamant its a yellow rose, I disagree
but proving a colour is not that easy as most flowers are shades and
although I do not have a set of colour charts (you have seen the price!)
that's what they were made for.
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

On 17/6/06 08:15, in article 4493d692_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
"Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote:

>
> "Sacha" <sacha [at] privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:C0B86E63.31DCE%sacha [at] privacy.net...
>> On 16/6/06 13:42, in article
> 4492a57b$1_3 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
>> "Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone got access to the full version? Am trying to settle a dispute
> about a
>>> white rose 'La Perle' and am having trouble persuading someone there is
> more
>>> than one shade of white! and that 'La Perle' is not a yellow rose. If I
> am
>>> to quote numbers I would as soon they be correct :~)
>>> (I just remember there are pages of them, broken down into green whites,
>>> cream whites, blue whites etc)
>>
>> Yes, Charlie, Ray has that set of different coloured cards in a green box.
>> How can we help?
>> --
>> Sacha
>> www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
>> South Devon
>> (email address on website)
>
> Just an idea how many shades of white are given would be usefull,
> If you have the time you could try comparing the on screen picture at
> www.roselandhouse.co.uk/roses/rlaperle.htm its a good likeness this end! I
> just want to be sure that it comes up as a white rose and not a yellow one
> (I know the buds are a soft yellow but the flowers are a lovely cream white.
> (You may of course know the rose?)

No, I don't know the rose but there is no doubt it's white. Have a look at
the David Austin site too, BTW.
http://www.davidaustinroses.com/english/showrose.asp?showr=9 17
The white group in the RHS colour chart is in Fan 4 and runs as follows:
White group, Greyed-White, Green-White, Yellow-White, Orange-White. Each
card has 4 shades on it and on printing off your pic and looking at that and
the screen picture, I have no doubt in saying that it's in White Group and
looks most like 155D. The centre appears to fall into the Yellow-White
Group 158 and is 158A. Naturally, colour registers can alter things but
this is most certainly not a yellow rose!
However, there IS a pale yellow tea rose called Perle des Jardins, bred by
Levet and my guess is that your interlocutor might be thinking of that one?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(email address on website)

"Sacha" <sacha [at] privacy.net> wrote in message
news:C0B9CA29.31EAC%sacha [at] privacy.net...
> On 17/6/06 08:15, in article 4493d692_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
> No, I don't know the rose but there is no doubt it's white. Have a look
at
> the David Austin site too, BTW.
> http://www.davidaustinroses.com/english/showrose.asp?showr=9 17
> The white group in the RHS colour chart is in Fan 4 and runs as follows:
> White group, Greyed-White, Green-White, Yellow-White, Orange-White. Each
> card has 4 shades on it and on printing off your pic and looking at that
and
> the screen picture, I have no doubt in saying that it's in White Group and
> looks most like 155D. The centre appears to fall into the Yellow-White
> Group 158 and is 158A. Naturally, colour registers can alter things but
> this is most certainly not a yellow rose!
> However, there IS a pale yellow tea rose called Perle des Jardins, bred by
> Levet and my guess is that your interlocutor might be thinking of that
one?
> --
> Sacha
> www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
> South Devon
> (email address on website)
>

Many thanks for all that. It is a customer who wanted a white rose, we sold
them 'La Perle' 2 years ago and we have recently received a letter claiming
its yellow and that they don't like it, so can we replace it! We don't sell
any yellow roses and the picture supplied by them is indeed La Perle so I
can not see the problem but they are starting to irritate us with constant
phone messages and letters.
They are not far from you, so if someone comes in looking for a white rose -
duck!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

On 17/6/06 15:37, in article 4494423c$1_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
"Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote:

>
> "Sacha" <sacha [at] privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:C0B9CA29.31EAC%sacha [at] privacy.net...
>> On 17/6/06 08:15, in article 4493d692_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
>> No, I don't know the rose but there is no doubt it's white. Have a look
> at
>> the David Austin site too, BTW.
>> http://www.davidaustinroses.com/english/showrose.asp?showr=9 17
>> The white group in the RHS colour chart is in Fan 4 and runs as follows:
>> White group, Greyed-White, Green-White, Yellow-White, Orange-White. Each
>> card has 4 shades on it and on printing off your pic and looking at that
> and
>> the screen picture, I have no doubt in saying that it's in White Group and
>> looks most like 155D. The centre appears to fall into the Yellow-White
>> Group 158 and is 158A. Naturally, colour registers can alter things but
>> this is most certainly not a yellow rose!
>> However, there IS a pale yellow tea rose called Perle des Jardins, bred by
>> Levet and my guess is that your interlocutor might be thinking of that
> one?
>> --
>
> Many thanks for all that. It is a customer who wanted a white rose, we sold
> them 'La Perle' 2 years ago and we have recently received a letter claiming
> its yellow and that they don't like it, so can we replace it! We don't sell
> any yellow roses and the picture supplied by them is indeed La Perle so I
> can not see the problem but they are starting to irritate us with constant
> phone messages and letters.
> They are not far from you, so if someone comes in looking for a white rose -
> duck!

How fortunate it is that we don't do a great number of roses!! And they've
waited TWO years? Hmmmmm.....!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(email address on website)

"Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
news:4493d693$1_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
> "michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> news:4ffnljF1iquodU1 [at] individual.net...
> >
> > "Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
> > news:4492a57b$1_3 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> >
> > > Anyone got access to the full version? Am trying to settle a dispute
> about
> > a
> > > white rose 'La Perle' and am having trouble persuading someone there
is
> > more
> > > than one shade of white! and that 'La Perle' is not a yellow rose. If
I
> am
> > > to quote numbers I would as soon they be correct :~)
> > > (I just remember there are pages of them, broken down into green
whites,
> > > cream whites, blue whites etc)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
> > > http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
> > > Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)
> >
> >
> > According to this link, there's an 884 colour three fan version for
> > £135, yes £135 and a one fan simplified version for £25
> >
> > http://www.rhs.org.uk/Learning/publications/pubs_library_col ourchart.asp
> >
> >
> > On the other hand printers and others use the Pantone colour system
> > and there are plenty of free charts for that on the Internet.
> > And from graphics suppliers.
> >
> > Not much help in other words
> >
> > michael adams
> >
> Thanks for the thoughts but I sort of need it to be more "Official" if you
> know what I mean, The other party is adamant its a yellow rose, I disagree
> but proving a colour is not that easy as most flowers are shades and
> although I do not have a set of colour charts (you have seen the price!)
> that's what they were made for.

....

I notice on your website, which I came across totally by accident
there's a picture -

http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk/roses/rlaperle.htm

along with the description "creamy white deepening toward the
centres".

That description seems fair enough to me.

If that's how it was described at the time they bought it
then they don't really have a leg to stand on IMO.

What are they suggesting - that they send it back and get
a refund or something ?

IME, honest but stubborn and misguided\stupid people can
be a bigger pain in the neck than outright crooks - as
they really do think they have right on their side.
And its often impossible to explain things to them and
get them to change their minds. Although your mileage may
vary. It's just fortunate that such people form a very
small minority overall.


michael adams

....



> --
> Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
> http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
> Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)
>
>

"michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:4fko1fF1jnvmmU1 [at] individual.net...
>
> "Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:4493d693$1_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> >
> > "michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> > news:4ffnljF1iquodU1 [at] individual.net...
> > >
>
> ...
>
> I notice on your website, which I came across totally by accident
> there's a picture -
>
> http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk/roses/rlaperle.htm
>
> along with the description "creamy white deepening toward the
> centres".
>
> That description seems fair enough to me.
>
> If that's how it was described at the time they bought it
> then they don't really have a leg to stand on IMO.
>
> What are they suggesting - that they send it back and get
> a refund or something ?
>
> IME, honest but stubborn and misguided\stupid people can
> be a bigger pain in the neck than outright crooks - as
> they really do think they have right on their side.
> And its often impossible to explain things to them and
> get them to change their minds. Although your mileage may
> vary. It's just fortunate that such people form a very
> small minority overall.
>
>
> michael adams
>
> ...

It is the very same picture we use on our selling labels, the last letter
indicated we should at our expense remove the "yellow rose" (which is now
20' plus) and replace same with a "white rose" i.e. physically go 150 miles
and do the planting! Still as you say such people are a tiny minority,
indeed this is the only customer we have had like it and since La Perle is
about the whitest rose I do there is little I can do to placate them.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

On 19/6/06 08:06, in article 44966a85$1_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com,
"Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote:the last letter

<snip>
> indicated we should at our expense remove the "yellow rose" (which is now
> 20' plus) and replace same with a "white rose" i.e. physically go 150 miles
> and do the planting! Still as you say such people are a tiny minority,
> indeed this is the only customer we have had like it and since La Perle is
> about the whitest rose I do there is little I can do to placate them.

I'd send them my post here and the David Austin description, too and put an
end to it. There's no arguing with the RHS charts because that's what they
exist for. As far as I can see, this sounds like a wind up and is utterly
ridiculous! Perhaps they've seen Climbing Iceberg and decided they like it
better! We had someone come in the other day complaining their Helenium had
died over the winter! Ray asked if it was alright last year and they said
that it had indeed, flowered its socks off but now it was dead and they
wanted another one. IOW, the wet and cold of this winter had killed what
was a perfectly healthy plant when they bought and planted it. For the sake
of good customer relations, we gave them another one but really..........!
It must have cost them all of £3.50 last year, if that and they probably
spent more on petrol coming here to moan about the forces of nature which
somehow, were our fault!
Send them the cost of the rose and tell them to use the money to get someone
to dig it out and replace it - if they can find anyone to do it!! ;-)

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(email address on website)

"Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
news:44966a85$1_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
> "michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> news:4fko1fF1jnvmmU1 [at] individual.net...
> >
> > "Charlie Pridham" <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
> > news:4493d693$1_1 [at] mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> > >
> > > "michael adams" <mjadams26 [at] onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:4ffnljF1iquodU1 [at] individual.net...
> > > >
> >
> > ...
> >
> > I notice on your website, which I came across totally by accident
> > there's a picture -
> >
> > http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk/roses/rlaperle.htm
> >
> > along with the description "creamy white deepening toward the
> > centres".
> >
> > That description seems fair enough to me.
> >
> > If that's how it was described at the time they bought it
> > then they don't really have a leg to stand on IMO.
> >
> > What are they suggesting - that they send it back and get
> > a refund or something ?
> >
> > IME, honest but stubborn and misguided\stupid people can
> > be a bigger pain in the neck than outright crooks - as
> > they really do think they have right on their side.
> > And its often impossible to explain things to them and
> > get them to change their minds. Although your mileage may
> > vary. It's just fortunate that such people form a very
> > small minority overall.
> >
> >
> > michael adams
> >
> > ...
>
> It is the very same picture we use on our selling labels, the last letter
> indicated we should at our expense remove the "yellow rose" (which is now
> 20' plus) and replace same with a "white rose" i.e. physically go 150
miles
> and do the planting! Still as you say such people are a tiny minority,
> indeed this is the only customer we have had like it and since La Perle is
> about the whitest rose I do there is little I can do to placate them.

....

"Seriously deranged", or as Sasha suggests "on a wind-up", are the
phrases I'm struggling with at this point.


michael adams

....


>
> --
> Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
> http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
> Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)
>
>

michael adams wrote:
[...]
>
> "Seriously deranged", or as Sasha suggests "on a wind-up", are the
> phrases I'm struggling with at this point.
>
Ditto. I suppose there's just about room for a genuine difference in
colour perception, or a gardening version of that Cezanne trick where
surrounding objects or flowers alter the apparent colour; but it seems
unlikely.

It goes against the grain, as you've been perfectly professional, and
your prices are competitive (Austin charges double for the same rose):
but perhaps it may be best to cut your losses and just send the silly
buggers their money back. Maybe explaining that your photo and
description are exactly the same as everybody else's, and that when the
decision is so critical it's best to visit a local grower and see how
the plant looks in real life before buying. Pain in the stern, but you
can't win: this is less expensive than wasting time arguing with a
brick wall. I hope most of your customers have more sense.

--
Mike.

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

"Janet Baraclough" <janet.and.john [at] zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:31303030393032394496C7BC55 [at] zetnet.co.uk...

>
> IME, mentally disturbed people are often very relieved when
> somebody else calmly establishes a normal boundary.
>
> Janet.



Sure seems to work on NewsGroups anyway!


michael adams

....


>
> --
> Isle of Arran Open Gardens weekend 21,22,23 July 2006
> 5 UKP three-day adult ticket (funds go to island charities) buys entry
> to 26 private gardens

Charlie Pridham <charlie.pridham [at] lineone.net> wrote:
>
> It is the very same picture we use on our selling labels, the last
> letter indicated we should at our expense remove the "yellow rose"
> (which is now 20' plus) and replace same with a "white rose" i.e.
> physically go 150 miles and do the planting! Still as you say such
> people are a tiny minority, indeed this is the only customer we have
> had like it and since La Perle is about the whitest rose I do there
> is little I can do to placate them.

There isn't any possibility that a yellow rose got mislabeled? If it didn't
then it looks pretty white to me!

--
NK
Follow spamtrap instructions to reply

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message <1150715867.337467.253840 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
> from "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>
> > michael adams wrote:
> > [...]
> > >
> > > "Seriously deranged", or as Sasha suggests "on a wind-up", are the
> > > phrases I'm struggling with at this point.
> > >
> > Ditto. I suppose there's just about room for a genuine difference in
> > colour perception, or a gardening version of that Cezanne trick where
> > surrounding objects or flowers alter the apparent colour; but it seems
> > unlikely.
>
> > It goes against the grain, as you've been perfectly professional, and
> > your prices are competitive (Austin charges double for the same rose):
> > but perhaps it may be best to cut your losses and just send the silly
> > buggers their money back. [...]
>
>
> If the customer was rational, that would be the simplest solution.
> Unfortunately, their behaviour so far suggests they are not rational. In
> which case, it could be a very bad idea to appease the manipulative
> delusional behaviour .
[...]

Hmm. Agreed on the mental-health principles. But I'm not sure that it's
good business practice to assume a customer is pathologically
delusional before all other possibilties have ben excluded. The rose
does, after all, objectively show a touch of yellowishness, as
mentioned in its description. What Charlie's told us is equally
consistent with obstinate stupidity or gross mick-taking -- both of
which are more common than loopiness. I'd set the boundaries exactly as
you describe, but send back the fiver at the same time "as a goodwill
gesture", and all bases would then be covered. I know the scale is
different, but I imagine that's what Marks and Spencer would do.

Charlie, I don't want to teach Grandma; but you may judge it wise not
to comment on our remarks in any but the most general terms, if at all,
in this newsgroup: one never knows.

--
Mike.

Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>
>> If the customer was rational, that would be the simplest solution.
>> Unfortunately, their behaviour so far suggests they are not rational. In
>> which case, it could be a very bad idea to appease the manipulative
>> delusional behaviour .
>[...]
>
>Hmm. Agreed on the mental-health principles. But I'm not sure that it's
>good business practice to assume a customer is pathologically
>delusional before all other possibilties have ben excluded. The rose
>does, after all, objectively show a touch of yellowishness, as
>mentioned in its description. What Charlie's told us is equally
>consistent with obstinate stupidity or gross mick-taking -- both of
>which are more common than loopiness. I'd set the boundaries exactly as
>you describe, but send back the fiver at the same time "as a goodwill
>gesture", and all bases would then be covered. I know the scale is
>different, but I imagine that's what Marks and Spencer would do.
>
>
I'd be very worried indeed about any goodwill gesture being interpreted
as an 'admission of guilt'. There is some accepted way of wording it so
that the refund is a goodwill gesture 'without prejudice' - if you go
the refund route, take some advice about how to word it.
--
Kay

On 20/6/06 13:45, in article twWss2K+3+lEFwEC [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk, "K"
<k [at] scarboro.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>
>> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>>>
>>> If the customer was rational, that would be the simplest solution.
>>> Unfortunately, their behaviour so far suggests they are not rational. In
>>> which case, it could be a very bad idea to appease the manipulative
>>> delusional behaviour .
>> [...]
>>
>> Hmm. Agreed on the mental-health principles. But I'm not sure that it's
>> good business practice to assume a customer is pathologically
>> delusional before all other possibilties have ben excluded. The rose
>> does, after all, objectively show a touch of yellowishness, as
>> mentioned in its description. What Charlie's told us is equally
>> consistent with obstinate stupidity or gross mick-taking -- both of
>> which are more common than loopiness. I'd set the boundaries exactly as
>> you describe, but send back the fiver at the same time "as a goodwill
>> gesture", and all bases would then be covered. I know the scale is
>> different, but I imagine that's what Marks and Spencer would do.
>>
>>
> I'd be very worried indeed about any goodwill gesture being interpreted
> as an 'admission of guilt'. There is some accepted way of wording it so
> that the refund is a goodwill gesture 'without prejudice' - if you go
> the refund route, take some advice about how to word it.


Ray once had some clot who wrote from miles away complaining bitterly that a
£5 plant had died after a year. Ray wrote back a letter in which he used
the words death, dead or died a couple of dozen times; said it always
distressed him terribly to hear of the DEATH of one of his 'babies' and sent
them a £20 note suggesting they buy a few other things to try not to KILL,
too. He said that his only worry was that they were so thick they probably
wouldn't realise their leg was being thoroughly pulled!
I think people are becoming more rude and more obnoxious. Yesterday, a very
rude woman (described as such by other customers) shouted at one of the tea
room staff because the knob had fallen off the loo door bolt and threatened
to make an 'official report'. I really cannot wait to see that one or which
department it ends up in! And I had a brief but unpleasant interlude with a
fool who wanted to bring his dog in (we only allow guide dogs) on the
grounds that she was 'sweating in the car' - hardly our fault or problem -
and when I said 'no', asked why our dogs were there. I explained that they
live here and this is their home, to which he said "well, why won't you
allow my dog in if yours are here?" Duh? He stomped off in a huff saying
he would 'go elsewhere', so out of curiosity we rang a couple of garden
centres and asked them if they allow dogs in. No, they don't. Neither do
Tesco, Morrisons or Sainsburys! But because we open our garden, people like
him think we'll go round shovelling their dogs' dirt from it. One Sunday
some years ago we had 12 dogs here and they were all over the flower beds
and the 'dung' mountain..........well! So that was the end of extending
that courtesy to our customers. And then there was the man who let his
large Golden Retriever swim in the ornamental fish pond. Tcha!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(email address on website)

"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1150803094.532673.146450 [at] h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Janet Baraclough wrote:
> > The message <1150715867.337467.253840 [at] i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
> > from "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk [at] yahoo.co.uk> contains these words:
> >
> >
> > > michael adams wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > >
> > > > "Seriously deranged", or as Sasha suggests "on a wind-up", are the
> > > > phrases I'm struggling with at this point.
> > > >
> > > Ditto. I suppose there's just about room for a genuine difference in
> > > colour perception, or a gardening version of that Cezanne trick where
> > > surrounding objects or flowers alter the apparent colour; but it seems
> > > unlikely.
> >
> > > It goes against the grain, as you've been perfectly professional, and
> > > your prices are competitive (Austin charges double for the same rose):
> > > but perhaps it may be best to cut your losses and just send the silly
> > > buggers their money back. [...]
> >
> >
> > If the customer was rational, that would be the simplest solution.
> > Unfortunately, their behaviour so far suggests they are not rational. In
> > which case, it could be a very bad idea to appease the manipulative
> > delusional behaviour .
> [...]
>
> Hmm. Agreed on the mental-health principles. But I'm not sure that it's
> good business practice to assume a customer is pathologically
> delusional before all other possibilties have ben excluded. The rose
> does, after all, objectively show a touch of yellowishness, as
> mentioned in its description. What Charlie's told us is equally
> consistent with obstinate stupidity or gross mick-taking -- both of
> which are more common than loopiness. I'd set the boundaries exactly as
> you describe, but send back the fiver at the same time "as a goodwill
> gesture", and all bases would then be covered. I know the scale is
> different, but I imagine that's what Marks and Spencer would do.
>
> Charlie, I don't want to teach Grandma; but you may judge it wise not
> to comment on our remarks in any but the most general terms, if at all,
> in this newsgroup: one never knows.
>
> --
> Mike.

I think I may have already said far too much! but you will all no doubt be
pleased to hear peace has it seems broken out after my last attempt at
placation was intecepted by the other half of the couple who indicated they
liked the rose! and was surprised any fuss had been made.
I understand it had been planted near a bright yellow wall and since moving
it (against my advice it had been planted in a pot) whilst still muttering
the words very yellow it has now been conceded that probably the world will
not end this Friday because of it.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)