#1: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-28 15:35:12 by Tony Pacc
The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's way
into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
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#2: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-28 16:02:17 by John McGaw
Tony Pacc wrote:
> The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
> mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
> mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's way
> into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
>
>
If the mulch that is already there is either fine or is coarse and
already starting to break down I'd simply turn it over and mix it into
the soil as deeply as I could. In fact, that quantity probably isn't
sufficient if the clay is as nasty as my local sort -- add several more
inches of compost to the existing mulch and turn that over. In my
experience it can take a huge quantity of organic material amendment to
improve clay. I've even resorted to adding perlite to lighten the
heaviest sort. Of course you'll need to replace the mulch on top after
planting.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com
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#3: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-28 16:31:11 by limey
"John McGaw" wrote :
> Tony Pacc wrote:
>> The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
>> mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
>> mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's
>> way
>> into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
>>
>
> If the mulch that is already there is either fine or is coarse and already
> starting to break down I'd simply turn it over and mix it into the soil as
> deeply as I could. In fact, that quantity probably isn't sufficient if the
> clay is as nasty as my local sort -- add several more inches of compost to
> the existing mulch and turn that over. In my experience it can take a huge
> quantity of organic material amendment to improve clay. I've even resorted
> to adding perlite to lighten the heaviest sort. Of course you'll need to
> replace the mulch on top after planting.
>
> John McGaw
I agree with John. We have heavy clay of the worst kind - gray, streaked
with blue. Ghastly stuff. We turn the mulch in every year, add compost,
even peat moss. It takes time, but you really can build up the soil. Our
flower beds now are great, with easily turned soil. Just have patience and
keep it up.
Dora
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#4: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-28 16:49:46 by Mindful
"Tony Pacc" <tpacc@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:12a5176shfg6d98@corp.supernews.com...
> The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
> mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
> mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's way
> into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
>
>
It will improve the soil much faster if you dig the mulch in to at least a
foot deep. Mix it well with the soil. Adding some peatmoss and sand will
help loosen the clay. Adding rotted manure or compost from stores like Home
Depot will make a difference. Our soil is a heavy red clay. After 13 years
of adding organic matter to the flower beds and veggie patch you would never
know it.
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#5: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-28 17:05:51 by nblomgren
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:49:46 -0500, "Mindful" <spamtrap@spamfree.com>
wrote:
>
>"Tony Pacc" <tpacc@execpc.com> wrote in message
>news:12a5176shfg6d98@corp.supernews.com...
>> The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
>> mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
>> mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's way
>> into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
>>
>>
>
>It will improve the soil much faster if you dig the mulch in to at least a
>foot deep. Mix it well with the soil. Adding some peatmoss and sand will
>help loosen the clay. Adding rotted manure or compost from stores like Home
>Depot will make a difference. Our soil is a heavy red clay. After 13 years
>of adding organic matter to the flower beds and veggie patch you would never
>know it.
Yep. We had heavy clay soil that I first mistook for concrete :)
It took a couple of years, but after adding soil conditioner, peat
moss, compost, and just about anything organic (even gutter crud), the
soil turns much more easily. Though it's still hard to get anything
other than the most indestructible plants to grow there (lantana is
doing very well), it was definitely worth the effort.
Dig deep. Don't rush. Let the elements take whatever time they need.
--Nan
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#6: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-28 18:50:33 by JoeSpareBedroom
"Tony Pacc" <tpacc@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:12a5176shfg6d98@corp.supernews.com...
> The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
> mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
> mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's way
> into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
>
>
In addition to all the other suggestions, call some REAL garden centers to
see if they sell bags of gypsum, sold specifically for busting up clay soil.
A friend has had good results with it, although it's not something that's
going to work in one season. Ask for it at Home Depot, and the knuckleheads
will probably try and walk you to the lumber department. Don't bother.
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#7: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-28 20:23:30 by Stephen Henning
"Tony Pacc" <tpacc@execpc.com> wrote:
> The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
> mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
> mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's way
> into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
Hi Tony, there is nothing better than good organic compost to improve
clay soil. However there is one other soil additive, Calcium Sulfate, or
gypsum which will counteract the increase of sodium in clay soils caused
by agricultural irrigation. In high sodium clay soils, the application
of gypsum will free the sodium and loosen up the soil and increase
drainage. If you are reclaiming farm land in the SE USA, then this may
be helpful. In other places it is of little use and may even be harmful.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman@earthlink.net
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhody.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhodybooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6
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#8: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-29 10:57:50 by roblyn
"Tony Pacc" <tpacc@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:12a5176shfg6d98@corp.supernews.com...
> The previous owner made a flower bed of mostly clay soil,it has about 2"
> mulch,is there any way I can improve this soil without removing all that
> mulch,like putting manure on top of the mulch hoping it will work it's way
> into the soil.Its a pretty large area if I have to remove all that mulch.
http://www.fbga.net/Lasagna%20gardening%202004.htm
rob
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#9: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-29 21:36:48 by g len
g'day tony,
i would lay a mass of gypsum down and rake it in then give it a good
water, then put some more manure or organic matter then mulch it with
spoilt hay. or it might be simpler to just put an edge around it and
convert it to a raised bed, see my page for building a garden and also
a link to ausgarden blog for my latest project.
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,
len
--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."
http://www.gardenlen.com
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#10: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-30 20:54:24 by James
"gardenlen" <gardenlen2@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:3fa8a25lc0sp53mub70rvacrbbts21g5uv@4ax.com...
> g'day tony,
>
> i would lay a mass of gypsum down and rake it in then give it a good
> water, then put some more manure or organic matter then mulch it with
> spoilt hay. or it might be simpler to just put an edge around it and
> convert it to a raised bed, see my page for building a garden and also
> a link to ausgarden blog for my latest project.
I'll second that suggestion.
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#11: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-06-30 21:43:37 by Phisherman
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 14:54:24 -0400, "James" <kingkongg@iglou.com>
wrote:
>
>"gardenlen" <gardenlen2@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>news:3fa8a25lc0sp53mub70rvacrbbts21g5uv@4ax.com...
>> g'day tony,
>>
>> i would lay a mass of gypsum down and rake it in then give it a good
>> water, then put some more manure or organic matter then mulch it with
>> spoilt hay. or it might be simpler to just put an edge around it and
>> convert it to a raised bed, see my page for building a garden and also
>> a link to ausgarden blog for my latest project.
>
>I'll second that suggestion.
>
Gypsum is good. Lime works too, although it takes longer, and a lot
less expensive. If you go the lime route, test your soil first. It
is probably acidic and in that case the lime will help. Working
compost into the soil will do wonders for clay soil too. If given the
choice of sandy soil and clay soil, I'd take the clay soil--at least
it has more nutrients in it than sandy soil.
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#12: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-07-10 02:53:01 by Plant Info
Gypsum or lime ONLY if your soil is on the acid side. If it's alkaline, it
will only make it more so.
Suzy, Wisconsin Zone 5
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#13: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-07-10 08:10:03 by myrl_jeffcoat
Tony-
Many years back when I bought my present home, I had a similar problem.
The soil was terrible. Back then, I had access to rice hulls - a
bi-product of the rice growing industry, here in the Sacramento area.
They were very cheap, and light. I mixed them into the soil, and
instantly noticed how they made the soil so much easier to work, and to
weed. Things would actually grow in the garden, because bulbs and
seeds weren't becoming entombed in the clay.
I don't know if you have rice hulls available in your area. . .but it's
something you might want to investigate.
Myrl Jeffcoat
http://www.myrljeffcoat.com
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#14: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-07-10 11:22:14 by roblyn
"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_Iusg.5152$Oh1.2607@news01.roc.ny...
>
> <maxsilverstar@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:tmr4b2t1a70r2vu6cih99o2hmpuh7l4q4t@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:53:01 GMT, "Plant Info" <PlantInfo@wi.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Gypsum or lime ONLY if your soil is on the acid side. If it's alkaline,
> >>it
> >>will only make it more so.
> >>Suzy, Wisconsin Zone 5
> >>
> > Gypsum is a neutral salt and *does NOT* raise pH. This is easily
> > discovered with
> > a simple search of the 'net.
>
> The discussion of pH misses the point anyway. The OP's got a problem with
> clay soil, which, at its worst, is next to impossible to work with unless
> you plan on cultivating with a backhoe. pH is the least of your worries in
> such a situation.
Gypsum will not raise the soil ph. It has a neutral or slightly acidic
effect on soil. It does displace sodium, this is what makes a soil more
workable. Gypsum contains 23% calcium and 15% sulphur. Calcium is alkaline,
sulphur is acidic. (I presume the 2 elements cancel each other out somehow.)
Limes that do effect soil ph are agricultural lime (calcium carbonate-this
takes some time to work), dydrated lime (calcium hydroxide-quick acting but
not to be applied with fertilisers) and Dolomite lime which also contains
high levels of magnesium (12%) along with calcium (24%).
source - Yates Garden Guide.
rob
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#15: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-07-10 17:39:32 by maxsilverstar
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:53:01 GMT, "Plant Info" <PlantInfo@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>Gypsum or lime ONLY if your soil is on the acid side. If it's alkaline, it
>will only make it more so.
>Suzy, Wisconsin Zone 5
>
Gypsum is a neutral salt and *does NOT* raise pH. This is easily discovered with
a simple search of the 'net.
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#16: Re: improving clay soil
Posted on 2006-07-10 17:52:26 by JoeSpareBedroom
<maxsilverstar@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tmr4b2t1a70r2vu6cih99o2hmpuh7l4q4t@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:53:01 GMT, "Plant Info" <PlantInfo@wi.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Gypsum or lime ONLY if your soil is on the acid side. If it's alkaline,
>>it
>>will only make it more so.
>>Suzy, Wisconsin Zone 5
>>
> Gypsum is a neutral salt and *does NOT* raise pH. This is easily
> discovered with
> a simple search of the 'net.
The discussion of pH misses the point anyway. The OP's got a problem with
clay soil, which, at its worst, is next to impossible to work with unless
you plan on cultivating with a backhoe. pH is the least of your worries in
such a situation.
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