#1: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 01:10:19 by susanszoocrew
What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat,
but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine?
I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and
then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using
featherstone)... would that work?
Susan Marsh
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#2: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 02:11:02 by arteacher3725
Sue:
Here is a formula which is attributed to Joe Day. I have used it quite succesfully.
Good Luck,
Carl L. Rosner
MUCK for Slabs
Joe Day Recipe: The recipe I use for muck is powdered clay and sphagnum moss with the moss being 80% milled sphagnum and 20% long fibered sphagnum. Dampen your moss and mix in the powdered clay until it forms a bread dough consistency.
Sue Marsh <susanszoocrew@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat,
but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real fine?
I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them apart, and
then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using
featherstone)... would that work?
Susan Marsh
Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7
Arteacher3725@yahoo.com
www.carlrosner.com
http://www.yessy.com/arteacher3725
http://rosner.becanz.net
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#3: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 12:55:46 by kevbailey111
We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be
called peat moss in the USA.
Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few
hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work
equally well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a
coating of new moss more rapidly.
I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work
with the addition of some clay.
Cheers
Kev Bailey
Zone 9
N Wales, UK
>What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat,
>but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real
>fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them
>apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using
>featherstone)... would that work?
>Susan Marsh
>
> ____________________________________________________________ _____
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#4: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 13:04:56 by arteacher3725
Marc:
My face is red, since I, also, couldn't find powdered clay, and used a product called clay slip, which I believe is available in art supply stores (such as www.DickbBlick.com) or ceramic shops. I bought a gallon of it for a few dollars (years ago). I used just a little of it in the mix. Unfortunately I didn't measure it, but used it as part of the liquid.
As a side note, everytime I pass the gallon jug, I turn it over, since it is a liquid clay, and it will settle out and will turn into a gallon of solid clay if left unattended.
Carl
Marc Zimmerman <marczman@earthlink.net> wrote:
Carl,
I have heard a similar formula from a nearby bonsai nursery. The only
problem seems to be finding the powdered clay. One of their employees works
for the RI School of Design where he was able to obtain it. Any notions for
the rest of us non-artists? And, are there any specifics on the
type/quality of the powdered clay?
Marc
> [Original Message]
> From: Carl Rosner
> To:
> Date: 6/23/2005 8:11:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
>
> MUCK for Slabs
>
> Joe Day Recipe: The recipe I use for muck is powdered clay and sphagnum
moss with the moss being 80% milled sphagnum and 20% long fibered sphagnum.
Dampen your moss and mix in the powdered clay until it forms a bread dough
consistency.
>
Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7
Arteacher3725@yahoo.com
www.carlrosner.com
http://www.yessy.com/arteacher3725
http://rosner.becanz.net
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#5: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 14:30:26 by iasnob
Susan:
If you can acquire powdered Akadama soil and chopped spagnum moss, the two in equal combination form a superb muck for use in all rock and slab plantings.
Cordially,
Michael Persiano
http://members.aol.com/iasnob/pinebook.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Kev Bailey <kevbailey111@MSN.COM>
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be called peat moss in the USA.
Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work equally well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a coating of new moss more rapidly.
I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work with the addition of some clay.
Cheers
Kev Bailey
Zone 9
N Wales, UK
>What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat, >but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real >fine? I was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them >apart, and then mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using >featherstone)... would that work?
>Susan Marsh
>
> ____________________________________________________________ _____
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#6: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 15:29:50 by bunjingi
Yes, akdadama dust is great. I save all my sifted dust when making
soil. Unfortunately, there is never enough around for a large slab
planting, etc. Kev Bailey was right on about potters clay. However,
don't get the slabs of pliable clay at crafts stores - this WON'T work.
You have to find a supplier of powdered clays for ceramic use. I find
it at an Art School supply store. This stuff is great to mix with
akadama dust, peat moss, etc. I also mix a bit of cheap potting soil -
get the cheapest, spongiest stuff you can find.
John Romano
bunjingi@aol.com
Rhode Island, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Persiano <iasnob@AOL.COM>
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:30:15 -0400
Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Susan:
If you can acquire powdered Akadama soil and chopped spagnum moss, the
two in
equal combination form a superb muck for use in all rock and slab
plantings.
Cordially,
Michael Persiano
http://members.aol.com/iasnob/pinebook.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Kev Bailey <kevbailey111@MSN.COM>
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would
be
called peat moss in the USA.
Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a
few
hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would
work equally
well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a
coating of new
moss more rapidly.
I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably
work with
the addition of some clay.
Cheers
Kev Bailey
Zone 9
N Wales, UK
>What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read
peat,
>but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real
>fine? I
was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them >apart,
and then
mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using
>featherstone)... would
that work?
>Susan Marsh
>
> ____________________________________________________________ _____
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/ 01/
>
> ************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
> ************************************************************ ********************
>>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
<<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
+++++
____________________________________________________________ _____
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************************************************************ ********************
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<<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
+++++
************************************************************ ********************
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************************************************************ ********************
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<<--<<
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#7: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 16:56:34 by iasnob
John:
I simply crush the Akadama (soft) into a powder. );-)) Costly? Yes. Effective? The best. Also, potter's clay should not be used to cover roots in root-over-rock plantings. I know that you did not say this is an application for potter's clay, but some folks may think the two are interchangeable.
Cordially,
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: John Romano <bunjingi@AOL.COM>
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:29:41 -0400
Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Yes, akdadama dust is great. I save all my sifted dust when making soil. Unfortunately, there is never enough around for a large slab planting, etc. Kev Bailey was right on about potters clay. However, don't get the slabs of pliable clay at crafts stores - this WON'T work. You have to find a supplier of powdered clays for ceramic use. I find it at an Art School supply store. This stuff is great to mix with akadama dust, peat moss, etc. I also mix a bit of cheap potting soil - get the cheapest, spongiest stuff you can find.
John Romano
bunjingi@aol.com
Rhode Island, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Persiano <iasnob@AOL.COM>
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:30:15 -0400
Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Susan:
If you can acquire powdered Akadama soil and chopped spagnum moss, the two in
equal combination form a superb muck for use in all rock and slab plantings.
Cordially,
Michael Persiano
http://members.aol.com/iasnob/pinebook.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Kev Bailey <kevbailey111@MSN.COM>
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be
called peat moss in the USA.
Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few
hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work equally
well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a coating of new
moss more rapidly.
I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work with
the addition of some clay.
Cheers
Kev Bailey
Zone 9
N Wales, UK
>What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read peat,
>but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real >fine? I
was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them >apart, and then
mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using >featherstone)... would
that work?
>Susan Marsh
>
> ____________________________________________________________ _____
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/ 01/
>
> ************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
> ************************************************************ ********************
>>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
____________________________________________________________ _____
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http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/
************************************************************ ********************
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************************************************************ ********************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
************************************************************ ********************
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************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
************************************************************ ********************
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************************************************************ ********************
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************************************************************ ********************
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#8: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 17:01:48 by susanszoocrew
Um, ok so are we supposed to use potter's clay or not? Now I'm confused. I
did pottery for years and know about the different kinds of clay so that's
no prob-but potter's clay is the only clay I know of that can be powdered?
It's not a root-over-rock planting, it's a rock planting-I carved out holes
in the featherstone and am going to plant the plants in those holes. So
really, I gues my mix doesn't need to be too sticky since I don't need it to
hold the plants on... hmmmmm
>From: Michael Persiano <iasnob@AOL.COM>
>Reply-To: iasnob@AOL.COM
>To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
>Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
>Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:56:26 -0400
>
>John:
>
>I simply crush the Akadama (soft) into a powder. );-)) Costly? Yes.
>Effective? The best. Also, potter's clay should not be used to cover
>roots in root-over-rock plantings. I know that you did not say this is an
>application for potter's clay, but some folks may think the two are
>interchangeable.
>
>Cordially,
>
>Michael
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Romano <bunjingi@AOL.COM>
>To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
>Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:29:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
>
>
>Yes, akdadama dust is great. I save all my sifted dust when making soil.
>Unfortunately, there is never enough around for a large slab planting, etc.
>Kev Bailey was right on about potters clay. However, don't get the slabs of
>pliable clay at crafts stores - this WON'T work. You have to find a
>supplier of powdered clays for ceramic use. I find it at an Art School
>supply store. This stuff is great to mix with akadama dust, peat moss, etc.
>I also mix a bit of cheap potting soil - get the cheapest, spongiest stuff
>you can find.
>John Romano
>bunjingi@aol.com
>Rhode Island, USA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Persiano <iasnob@AOL.COM>
>To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
>Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:30:15 -0400
>Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
>
> Susan:
>
>If you can acquire powdered Akadama soil and chopped spagnum moss, the two
>in
>equal combination form a superb muck for use in all rock and slab
>plantings.
>
>Cordially,
>
>Michael Persiano
>http://members.aol.com/iasnob/pinebook.html
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kev Bailey <kevbailey111@MSN.COM>
>To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
>Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:48:21 +0100
>Subject: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
>
>We use potters clay mixed roughly 50/50 with peat in the UK. That would be
>called peat moss in the USA.
>
>Sphagnum moss is the same thing but fresh rather than rotted down for a few
>hundreds or thousands of years in a peat bog. I'm sure either would work
>equally
>well but the fresh moss, if kept damp enough, would regenerate a coating of
>new
>moss more rapidly.
>
>I think your proposed mix wouldn't be sticky enough. It would probably work
>with
>the addition of some clay.
>
>Cheers
>
>Kev Bailey
>Zone 9
>N Wales, UK
>
> >What's the best thing to use to make muck for a rock planting? I read
>peat,
> >but the only peat I've found is peat moss- do you just chop it up real
> >fine? I
>was considering buying some of the Jiffy Pots and taking them >apart, and
>then
>mixing it wil the pieces of rock I chipped off (am using >featherstone)...
>would
>that work?
> >Susan Marsh
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________ _____
> >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/ 01/
> >
> > ************************************************************ ********************
>
> > ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
> > ************************************************************ ********************
>
> >>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> > +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
>
> ____________________________________________________________ _____
>Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!
>http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/
>
> ************************************************************ ********************
>
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
> ************************************************************ ********************
>
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
>
> ************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
> ************************************************************ ********************
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
>
>
> ************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
> ************************************************************ ********************
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
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>
> ************************************************************ ********************
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> ************************************************************ ********************
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#9: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 17:50:51 by stevew70146
are there any craft stores near you? They all sell clay.
Steve Wachs
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#10: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-24 21:25:54 by jklewis
Sue Marsh wrote:
> Um, ok so are we supposed to use potter's clay or not? Now I'm confused.
> I did pottery for years and know about the different kinds of clay so
> that's no prob-but potter's clay is the only clay I know of that can be
> powdered?
> It's not a root-over-rock planting, it's a rock planting-I carved out
> holes in the featherstone and am going to plant the plants in those
> holes. So really, I gues my mix doesn't need to be too sticky since I
> don't need it to hold the plants on... hmmmmm
>
>
No. Treat each of the holes just as if they were little
pots. The feather stone you are using is porous enough to
drain.
Jim Lewis - jklewis@nettally.com - This economy is a wholly
owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson
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#11: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-25 08:12:41 by Tiziano
Carl Rosner wrote:
HI Carl
whick kind of rock planting ?
either you can use the *dusts* of akadama if you use
akadama and keep them or take a lump of dried out clay
bake to sterilize in the oven and than hammer to powder or
scrape it .. thna you have to mix it equal parts with peat
and you get a sort of yellowish sticky paste . you use it
to fix the roots on the stone cover it again with same
pongo .. if is a proeminent rock you can fasten it with an
old nylon sock ,it will allow water to pass trought and
roots not to, so will spred on the rock ( just done few
months ago on a maple , ) than bury it all waithing at
least one eyer for roots to grow long and deep under the stone
will take generally 2-3 years ,
anyway exists differents procedures according teh sort
of rock plantation you want to make
i.e.: apparents roots on rock ,landscape, slab
>
Report this message |
#12: Re: [IBC] rock planting question
Posted on 2005-06-25 17:43:11 by susanszoocrew
Well, I decided just to do the two rocks and see what would happen. I had
two featherstone rocks with 5 holes each for plants.... took over to my
bonsai buddy's house for advice. What I ended up doing was using the soil
the cuttings were in in the bottom of the holes, and mixed up muck for the
top layer to hold the cuttings how I wanted. For muck I used low-fire clay,
spagnum peat moss, and the featherstone chippings... about 20% clay, 70%
spagnum peat, and 10% gritty stuff. Portulacaria afra is a pretty tough
plant, so we'll see how these do with the mucky stuff. They don't need a ton
of water... I figured once I get the rocks back here to the house, I'm going
to set them into shallow containers of water. The featherstone is really
porous and holds water well so I figured the roots will get enough water
even around the muck. The rocks aren't home yet as I wanted to let the much
set up a couple of days before transporting them in my truck again (I live
on a very bumpy dirt road)..... Am already plotting to do another one, it's
a good use for all the cuttings I have that still have a couple years to go
:)
Susan L. Marsh
www.susanszoocrew.com
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