#1: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-06 13:50:00 by GOPHERHILL
I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for
beginners.
I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles
at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the
"knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below)
If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a
book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as
watering, fertilizer, etc.
Recently a post requested information on starting a forest from some
collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest problem for now will be
keeping the seedlings alive and since they were planted in a community pot,
separating them into individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest.
Although the poster probably didn't want to read the above sentence,
they need to realize that growing the plants comes first, creating the forest
comes second.
I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic addition and
subtraction should be mastered before the student tries Algebra.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
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#2: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-06 14:39:54 by jklewis
Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
> I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are books for
> beginners.
> I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care. The articles
> at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the articles in the
> "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below)
> If a book is desired visit the library or book store and look for a
> book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in containers, such as
> watering, fertilizer, etc.
ALWAYS keeping in mind that bonsai books are NOT the best
places to learn how to grow things. Too much of the
horticultural information in bonsai books is out-of-date,
specific to the author's home town, or flat our wrong!
Almost all of the pictures show twigs growing in bonsai pots
(which is why we get so many pics on the gallery of twigs in
bonsai pots), but bonsai pots are for finished, or
almost-finished trees. Period. Once a tree gets jammed
into a small bonsai pot, it stops growing. And these twigs
need to put on girth, get more, and twiggier, branches and
otherwise spend a healthy childhood somewhere where they
have a lot of root room.
Jim Lewis - jklewis@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - People,
when Columbus discovered this country, it was plum full of
nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you (that) the
berries are just about all gone. -- Uncle Dave Macon, musician
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#3: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-06 17:36:54 by kits
The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest
planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right
that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading
on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted"
wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me
plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them.
I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale.
The woman who bought my contirbution was really
pleased with it, but pissed that it died after she put
it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase,
within 3 months of the original repotting). I told
her it was her responsibility, she should have waited
to transplant it.
Kits
--- "Billy M. Rhodes" <GOPHERHILL@AOL.COM> wrote:
> I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by
> John Naka are books for
> beginners.
> I think beginners need more guidance in basic
> plant care. The articles
> at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the
> articles in the
> "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below)
> If a book is desired visit the library or
> book store and look for a
> book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in
> containers, such as
> watering, fertilizer, etc.
> Recently a post requested information on
> starting a forest from some
> collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest
> problem for now will be
> keeping the seedlings alive and since they were
> planted in a community pot,
> separating them into individual pots to grow, rather
> than arranging a forest.
> Although the poster probably didn't want to
> read the above sentence,
> they need to realize that growing the plants comes
> first, creating the forest
> comes second.
> I know I think like the teacher I am but I
> think basic addition and
> subtraction should be mastered before the student
> tries Algebra.
>
> Billy on the Florida Space Coast
>
>
************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin
> Bailey++++
>
************************************************************ ********************
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
> http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
> BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
>
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."
Anne Lamott
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#4: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-06 18:43:14 by SteveWachs
I think one of the books from bbg had info on forests. good beginners books in general for bonsai
SteveW
Long Island NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Kitsune Miko <kits@PACBELL.NET>
To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 08:36:41 -0700
Subject: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest
planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right
that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading
on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted"
wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me
plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them.
I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale.
The woman who bought my contirbution was really
pleased with it, but pissed that it died after she put
it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase,
within 3 months of the original repotting). I told
her it was her responsibility, she should have waited
to transplant it.
Kits
--- "Billy M. Rhodes" <GOPHERHILL@AOL.COM> wrote:
> I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by
> John Naka are books for
> beginners.
> I think beginners need more guidance in basic
> plant care. The articles
> at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the
> articles in the
> "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below)
> If a book is desired visit the library or
> book store and look for a
> book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in
> containers, such as
> watering, fertilizer, etc.
> Recently a post requested information on
> starting a forest from some
> collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest
> problem for now will be
> keeping the seedlings alive and since they were
> planted in a community pot,
> separating them into individual pots to grow, rather
> than arranging a forest.
> Although the poster probably didn't want to
> read the above sentence,
> they need to realize that growing the plants comes
> first, creating the forest
> comes second.
> I know I think like the teacher I am but I
> think basic addition and
> subtraction should be mastered before the student
> tries Algebra.
>
> Billy on the Florida Space Coast
>
>
************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin
> Bailey++++
>
************************************************************ ********************
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
> http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
> BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
>
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."
Anne Lamott
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#5: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-06 18:47:50 by kits
I'm not familiar with bbg.
Kits
--- Steve wachs <stevewachs@AOL.COM> wrote:
> I think one of the books from bbg had info on
> forests. good beginners books in general for bonsai
>
> SteveW
> Long Island NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kitsune Miko <kits@PACBELL.NET>
> To: BONSAI@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Sent: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 08:36:41 -0700
> Subject: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
>
>
> The original poster wanted info on how to do a
> forest
> planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are
> right
> that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading
> on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted"
> wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me
> plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them.
>
> I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale.
>
> The woman who bought my contirbution was really
> pleased with it, but pissed that it died after she
> put
> it onto a different pot (within a month of
> peruchase,
> within 3 months of the original repotting). I told
> her it was her responsibility, she should have
> waited
> to transplant it.
>
> Kits
>
> --- "Billy M. Rhodes" <GOPHERHILL@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
> > I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by
> > John Naka are books for
> > beginners.
> > I think beginners need more guidance in
> basic
> > plant care. The articles
> > at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are
> the
> > articles in the
> > "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below)
> > If a book is desired visit the library or
> > book store and look for a
> > book that includes chapters on basic plant care,
> in
> > containers, such as
> > watering, fertilizer, etc.
> > Recently a post requested information on
> > starting a forest from some
> > collected, seedling maples. This person's biggest
> > problem for now will be
> > keeping the seedlings alive and since they were
> > planted in a community pot,
> > separating them into individual pots to grow,
> rather
> > than arranging a forest.
> > Although the poster probably didn't want to
> > read the above sentence,
> > they need to realize that growing the plants comes
> > first, creating the forest
> > comes second.
> > I know I think like the teacher I am but I
> > think basic addition and
> > subtraction should be mastered before the student
> > tries Algebra.
> >
> > Billy on the Florida Space Coast
> >
> >
>
************************************************************ ********************
> > ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin
> > Bailey++++
> >
>
************************************************************ ********************
> > >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
> > http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> > +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
> > BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
> >
>
>
> ****
> "Expectations are resentments under construction."
>
> Anne Lamott
>
>
************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin
> Bailey++++
>
************************************************************ ********************
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
> http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
> BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
>
>
************************************************************ ********************
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin
> Bailey++++
>
************************************************************ ********************
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
> http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
> BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
>
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."
Anne Lamott
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#6: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-06 19:16:12 by ccowing
On Jul 6, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Kitsune Miko wrote:
> I'm not familiar with bbg.
>
> Kits
>
Brooklyn Botanic Garden. For first books they are a good start. The new
Sunset book is very good, as is the one just published by Ortho.
Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#7: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-06 23:07:07 by jklewis
Kitsune Miko wrote:
> I'm not familiar with bbg.
>
Brooklyn Botanical Garden. A series of three useful, but a
bit disjointed booklets on bonsai.
Jim Lewis - jklewis@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - When we
see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to
use it with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County
Almanac
>
>
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#8: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-07 05:19:13 by awbonsai
Although I am a member of BBG and get their nice series
of All-Region Guides, which are generally well produced and
informative publications, I can't really recommend the BBG bonsai
books to beginners due to wrong information. For example, the
most recently published Pruning Trees, Shrubs and Vines booklet
contains a bit of misinformation included in the book on page 88
at the beginning of the chapter titled, Special Cases: Pruning
for Particular Purposes. The chapter opens with a statement that
bonsai "is usually an indoor horticultural sport". We know that
this is simply not true, and it reinforces a commonly held
misunderstanding of bonsai and a reason for many misadventures in
bonsai. Of course, while some woody tropical plants adapt pretty
well to indoor conditions, most bonsai are grown outdoors most of
the time.
I also disagree with lumping Naka's Bonsai Techniques I
and II together as unsuitable for beginners. While BT II was
written for intermediate and advanced bonsai practitioners, BT I
is an excellent beginner's resource in my opinion. Of course, I
remember when it was a welcome new resource in a time when there
were few of any caliber from which to choose. And it remains head
and shoulders above the likes of the BBG books.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve wachs
I think one of the books from bbg had info on forests. good
beginners books in general for bonsai
SteveW
Long Island NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Kitsune Miko <kits@PACBELL.NET>
The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest
planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right
that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading
on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted"
wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me
plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them.
I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale.
The woman who bought my contirbution was really
pleased with it, but pissed that it died after she put
it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase,
within 3 months of the original repotting). I told
her it was her responsibility, she should have waited
to transplant it.
Kits
--- "Billy M. Rhodes" <GOPHERHILL@AOL.COM> wrote:
I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are
books for beginners.
I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care.
The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the
articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below)
If a book is desired visit the library or book store and
look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in
containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc.
Recently a post requested information on starting a
forest from some collected, seedling maples. This person's
biggest problem for now will be keeping the seedlings alive and
since they were planted in a community pot, separating them into
individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest.
Although the poster probably didn't want to read the
above sentence, they need to realize that growing the plants
comes first, creating the forest comes second.
I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic
addition and subtraction should be mastered before the student
tries Algebra.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#9: Re: [IBC] Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-07 06:51:34 by awbonsai
Just a little more regarding Naka's books and Billy's
observation. I agree that novices do need to learn the
horticulture aspect more than the artistic aspect initially.
There's not much point in styling a dead, or soon to be dead,
tree. But these are not mutually exclusive areas, and I am not at
all persuaded that you should put off one while learning the
other. It's just a matter of emphasis.
I think John Naka, who was quite expert in matters of
horticulture, realized that there are a plethora of good books
out there on horticulture. It is hard to do justice to all the
horticultural issues of bonsai in a single book. So he wisely
focused more on the artistic aspect of bonsai. Several folks
around here have a mantra not to trust horticultural information
from a bonsai book. I don't especially buy that, except that
information evolves and science has its fads/trends. While bonsai
audiences seem particularly vulnerable to pseudoscientific claims
and perpetuation of logical sounding myths due to our general
lack of rigorous assessment of these claims, that doesn't mean
that we can't get it when good stuff is presented.
By sticking to the parts that make bonsai different from
other horticultural endeavors Naka made a classic book which
remains a solid and respectable source of bonsai information
today.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Walker
Although I am a member of BBG and get their nice series
of All-Region Guides, which are generally well produced and
informative publications, I can't really recommend the BBG bonsai
books to beginners due to wrong information. For example, the
most recently published Pruning Trees, Shrubs and Vines booklet
contains a bit of misinformation included in the book on page 88
at the beginning of the chapter titled, Special Cases: Pruning
for Particular Purposes. The chapter opens with a statement that
bonsai "is usually an indoor horticultural sport". We know that
this is simply not true, and it reinforces a commonly held
misunderstanding of bonsai and a reason for many misadventures in
bonsai. Of course, while some woody tropical plants adapt pretty
well to indoor conditions, most bonsai are grown outdoors most of
the time.
I also disagree with lumping Naka's Bonsai Techniques I
and II together as unsuitable for beginners. While BT II was
written for intermediate and advanced bonsai practitioners, BT I
is an excellent beginner's resource in my opinion. Of course, I
remember when it was a welcome new resource in a time when there
were few of any caliber from which to choose. And it remains head
and shoulders above the likes of the BBG books.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve wachs
I think one of the books from bbg had info on forests. good
beginners books in general for bonsai
SteveW
Long Island NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Kitsune Miko <kits@PACBELL.NET>
The original poster wanted info on how to do a forest
planting. I recommedned Naka for that. You are right
that it is not a basic book. In addition to reading
on plant care I feel one should "become aquainted"
wilth plant material in your care. I keep new to me
plants for 6 months to a year before I work on them.
I remember donating a plant for our club plant sale.
The woman who bought my contirbution was really
pleased with it, but pissed that it died after she put
it onto a different pot (within a month of peruchase,
within 3 months of the original repotting). I told
her it was her responsibility, she should have waited
to transplant it.
Kits
--- "Billy M. Rhodes" <GOPHERHILL@AOL.COM> wrote:
I don't think Bonsai Techniques I & II by John Naka are
books for beginners.
I think beginners need more guidance in basic plant care.
The articles at www.evergreengardenworks.com are good as are the
articles in the "knowledge base" of the IBC website. (see below)
If a book is desired visit the library or book store and
look for a book that includes chapters on basic plant care, in
containers, such as watering, fertilizer, etc.
Recently a post requested information on starting a
forest from some collected, seedling maples. This person's
biggest problem for now will be keeping the seedlings alive and
since they were planted in a community pot, separating them into
individual pots to grow, rather than arranging a forest.
Although the poster probably didn't want to read the
above sentence, they need to realize that growing the plants
comes first, creating the forest comes second.
I know I think like the teacher I am but I think basic
addition and subtraction should be mastered before the student
tries Algebra.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
************************************************************ ********************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************************ ********************
>>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ <<--<<
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++
Report this message |
#10: Re: Bonsai Texts Beginner v. Advanced
Posted on 2005-07-07 21:24:10 by Scooter the mighty
> ALWAYS keeping in mind that bonsai books are NOT the best
> places to learn how to grow things. Too much of the
> horticultural information in bonsai books is out-of-date,
> specific to the author's home town, or flat our wrong!
> Almost all of the pictures show twigs growing in bonsai pots
> (which is why we get so many pics on the gallery of twigs in
> bonsai pots), but bonsai pots are for finished, or
> almost-finished trees. Period. Once a tree gets jammed
> into a small bonsai pot, it stops growing. And these twigs
> need to put on girth, get more, and twiggier, branches and
> otherwise spend a healthy childhood somewhere where they
> have a lot of root room.
>
Man, they got me with that twigs in a pot one. I've read quite a few
beginning bonsai books, and while a couple have talked about "training
pots," none of them have really explained what they are for or
explained that you need root room for a thick trunk.
Report this message |
