Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 28.06.2006 10:25:25 von ant

I grew some oak trees from some acorns I found, and planted them some years
back, and they are doing really well (very dry, very windy farmlet, rocky
shale soil). I'd like to grow some more, and hoped for acorns as it's the
right time of year, but after a careful rummage around in the leaves,
nothing.

Do oaks have to be a certain age or size before they generate acorns, or are
these trees holding out on me so I don't get any more free trees?

--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 28.06.2006 13:49:53 von Chookie

In article <>
wrote:

> Do oaks have to be a certain age or size before they generate acorns, or are
> these trees holding out on me so I don't get any more free trees?

Most trees don't fruit for the first however-many years-- the energy goes into
growing a good root system. With some fruit trees, you're told to strip the
fruit for the first few years, to encourage a sturdier tree.

My guess is that oaks, being long-lived, take longer to hit silvan puberty!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 28.06.2006 14:26:27 von ant

Chookie wrote:
> In article <>, "ant"
> <> wrote:
>
>> Do oaks have to be a certain age or size before they generate
>> acorns, or are these trees holding out on me so I don't get any more
>> free trees?
>
> Most trees don't fruit for the first however-many years-- the energy
> goes into growing a good root system. With some fruit trees, you're
> told to strip the fruit for the first few years, to encourage a
> sturdier tree.
>
> My guess is that oaks, being long-lived, take longer to hit silvan
> puberty!

Makes sense. I'm amazed at how they thrive at my place, they really like the
awful conditions. You know what other non-native tree likes it? Chinese
Elms! I haven't had any of those little flying seeds from them, either, come
to think of it.

I appreciate any tree that'll grow well in the dry, the rocks and the wind.

I might go prowl around Braddon after work, that's where I got the original
acorns from.


--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 01:33:38 von GreenieLeBrun

ant wrote:
> Chookie wrote:
> > In article <>, "ant"
> > <> wrote:
> >
> >> Do oaks have to be a certain age or size before they generate
> >> acorns, or are these trees holding out on me so I don't get any more
> >> free trees?
> >
> > Most trees don't fruit for the first however-many years-- the energy
> > goes into growing a good root system. With some fruit trees, you're
> > told to strip the fruit for the first few years, to encourage a
> > sturdier tree.
> >
> > My guess is that oaks, being long-lived, take longer to hit silvan
> > puberty!
>
> Makes sense. I'm amazed at how they thrive at my place, they really like the
> awful conditions. You know what other non-native tree likes it? Chinese
> Elms! I haven't had any of those little flying seeds from them, either, come
> to think of it.
>
> I appreciate any tree that'll grow well in the dry, the rocks and the wind.
>
> I might go prowl around Braddon after work, that's where I got the original
> acorns from.
>
>
> --
> ant

Olives spring to mind. You state that you are near Braddon so I guess
you are in or near the ACT, if that is the case then olives should do
well, there is apparently a massive olive tree near Cooma on the old
Hamilton Hume (I think) estate, saw it on the TV the other night.

If Oaks are doing well then you could also consider Walnuts, Chesnuts,
Almonds as well as differnt varieties of Oak such as Cork and Pin Oaks.

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 01:38:45 von FlowerGirl

"Chookie" <> wrote in message
news:
> In article <>
> wrote:
>
> > Do oaks have to be a certain age or size before they generate acorns, or
are
> > these trees holding out on me so I don't get any more free trees?
>
> Most trees don't fruit for the first however-many years-- the energy goes
into
> growing a good root system. With some fruit trees, you're told to strip
the
> fruit for the first few years, to encourage a sturdier tree.
>
> My guess is that oaks, being long-lived, take longer to hit silvan
puberty!
>

Yep - this is true of a lot of trees. Flowering and fruiting is delayed
until they are more mature.
Amanda

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 09:36:54 von Farm1

"ant" <> wrote in message
news:
> I grew some oak trees from some acorns I found, and planted them
some years
> back, and they are doing really well (very dry, very windy farmlet,
rocky
> shale soil). I'd like to grow some more, and hoped for acorns as
it's the
> right time of year, but after a careful rummage around in the
leaves,
> nothing.

Probably been eaten by foragers as your now a bit too late to be
looking - a couple of months ago was the right time. We've had acorns
on our 3 year old oak trees but they disappear quickly.
>
> Do oaks have to be a certain age or size before they generate
acorns, or are
> these trees holding out on me so I don't get any more free trees?

Just look in the local parks - we collect them everywhere we go when
it's about the right time of year
I've go two polystyrene containers pottee up and waiting for spring
now

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 09:40:48 von Farm1

"ant" <> wrote in message

> Makes sense. I'm amazed at how they thrive at my place, they really
like the
> awful conditions.

If yu really want tos ee the go like stink then give them some water -
15 ft in 3 years with a bit of water.

> I might go prowl around Braddon after work, that's where I got the
original
> acorns from.

There are some nice red oaks in Braddon but look around there are
heaps in your locale - they will do better than the red oaks - there
is also a local street tree book which you can get from the library
service and that willt ell you which streets have which oaks but look
next year or get any acorns into the ground VERY quickly - a bit too
late now as they've dried out.

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 09:43:05 von Farm1

"GreenieLeBrun" <> wrote in message

> Olives spring to mind.

Slow in this region but do well with water and a good care regime.

> If Oaks are doing well then you could also consider Walnuts,

Needs good,regular water.

> Almonds

Hate theh cold but OK in suburbia if there is no late frost.

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 11:50:57 von ant

GreenieLeBrun wrote:

> Olives spring to mind. You state that you are near Braddon so I guess
> you are in or near the ACT, if that is the case then olives should do
> well, there is apparently a massive olive tree near Cooma on the old
> Hamilton Hume (I think) estate, saw it on the TV the other night.

Yes, this is a good environment for olives. I notice the people down the
hill have put in some olives, and they are surviving. The birds might enjoy
them too.

> If Oaks are doing well then you could also consider Walnuts, Chesnuts,
> Almonds as well as differnt varieties of Oak such as Cork and Pin
> Oaks.

Planted some walnuts years ago (and everything's irrigated), they just
shrivelled and died. The constant wind and dryness did for them. Maples HATE
it too. Mannifera gums grow well, but few others do (some of the
macarthurii survived, a few pauciflora did too, but mannifera seem to like
it).

Seems trees with tough hard leaves, like oaks and chinese elms, can handle
it better. Mind you the silver birches struggle a bit and form very thick
stubby trunks.



--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 11:52:09 von ant

Farm1 wrote:
> "GreenieLeBrun" <> wrote in message
>
>> Olives spring to mind.
>
> Slow in this region but do well with water and a good care regime.
>
>> If Oaks are doing well then you could also consider Walnuts,
>
> Needs good,regular water.
>
>> Almonds
>
> Hate theh cold but OK in suburbia if there is no late frost.

Not in suburbia! I've never noticed much wind down in Canberra. This wind
makes the water in my loo slosh around. It's a bit warmer than canberra up
here though, so I might investigate almonds, could be interesting.

--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 29.06.2006 11:56:57 von ant

Farm1 wrote:
> "ant" <> wrote in message
>
>> Makes sense. I'm amazed at how they thrive at my place, they really
>> like the awful conditions.
>
> If yu really want tos ee the go like stink then give them some water -
> 15 ft in 3 years with a bit of water.

All my trees are on irrigation. It's just too dry and extreme here. High
winds, rain shadow, fast draining shale and the soil is hydrophobic.
However, the first oak survived (and thrived) for a few years before we
extended the irrigation to it. Very impressive. It's been there a lot
longer than 3 years though, and I'm pleased that it's bigger than me now.
It's a very tough environment.

>> I might go prowl around Braddon after work, that's where I got the
>> original acorns from.
>
> There are some nice red oaks in Braddon but look around there are
> heaps in your locale - they will do better than the red oaks - there
> is also a local street tree book which you can get from the library
> service and that willt ell you which streets have which oaks but look
> next year or get any acorns into the ground VERY quickly - a bit too
> late now as they've dried out.



--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 01.07.2006 09:26:39 von Chookie

In article <>
wrote:

> Planted some walnuts years ago (and everything's irrigated), they just
> shrivelled and died. The constant wind and dryness did for them. Maples HATE
> it too. Mannifera gums grow well, but few others do (some of the
> macarthurii survived, a few pauciflora did too, but mannifera seem to like
> it).

Where are you again? If you try local species, they usually do very well,
even on quite degraded land (my back yard was probably an abbatoirs paddock
for years before WW2, but the local species are doing well, even on bits of my
back yard where I haven't done anything about the drainage.)

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 01.07.2006 12:23:29 von ant

Chookie wrote:
> In article <>, "ant"
> <> wrote:
>
>> Planted some walnuts years ago (and everything's irrigated), they
>> just shrivelled and died. The constant wind and dryness did for
>> them. Maples HATE it too. Mannifera gums grow well, but few others
>> do (some of the macarthurii survived, a few pauciflora did too, but
>> mannifera seem to like it).
>
> Where are you again? If you try local species, they usually do very
> well, even on quite degraded land (my back yard was probably an
> abbatoirs paddock for years before WW2, but the local species are
> doing well, even on bits of my back yard where I haven't done
> anything about the drainage.)

A highish mountain where the Monaro starts. Very windy, and it appears to be
in a rain shadow.
We did collect some seed from the local gums some years back and propagated
them. They are some rough-barked thing, possibly a type of yellow box. They
are quite susceptible to the sticky scale that seems to come with ants. We
have done the same with the local casuarinas too, and some are growing well,
but the younger ones we planted last year succumbed to the horrible hoppers
that have appeared in plague numbers the past 2 summers. They eat
everything.

--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 03.07.2006 13:50:41 von Farm1

"ant" <> wrote in message
> Chookie wrote:
> > In article <>, "ant"
> > <> wrote:
> >
> >> Planted some walnuts years ago (and everything's irrigated), they
> >> just shrivelled and died. The constant wind and dryness did for
> >> them. Maples HATE it too. Mannifera gums grow well, but few
others
> >> do (some of the macarthurii survived, a few pauciflora did too,
but
> >> mannifera seem to like it).
> >
> > Where are you again? If you try local species, they usually do
very
> > well, even on quite degraded land (my back yard was probably an
> > abbatoirs paddock for years before WW2, but the local species are
> > doing well, even on bits of my back yard where I haven't done
> > anything about the drainage.)
>
> A highish mountain where the Monaro starts. Very windy, and it
appears to be
> in a rain shadow.
> We did collect some seed from the local gums some years back and
propagated
> them. They are some rough-barked thing, possibly a type of yellow
box. They
> are quite susceptible to the sticky scale that seems to come with
ants. We
> have done the same with the local casuarinas too, and some are
growing well,
> but the younger ones we planted last year succumbed to the horrible
hoppers
> that have appeared in plague numbers the past 2 summers. They eat
> everything.

And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder there
are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in the bad
conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 04.07.2006 11:43:07 von ant

Farm1 wrote:
> And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
> they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder there
> are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in the bad
> conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.

Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef up the
windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow here. I've tried
some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on alpine mountain tops
apparently, and are endangered (euc. Baeuerlenii). Well I know why they're
endangered, they're hopeless. A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle
apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera are OK
too.

--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 05.07.2006 07:42:24 von Farm1

"ant" <> wrote in message
news:
> Farm1 wrote:
> > And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
> > they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder
there
> > are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in the
bad
> > conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.
>
> Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef
up the
> windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow here.

Pines and gums grown together right form the start can do very well as
wind breaks. They sem to grow at about the same pace if started
together.

I've tried
> some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on alpine mountain tops
> apparently, and are endangered (euc. Baeuerlenii). Well I know why
they're
> endangered, they're hopeless.

:-)) Yup! I prefer the permaculture approach to the purist
approach - whatever works in hard and hungry conditons.

A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle
> apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera
are OK
> too.

Have you tried E. viminalis (spelling???) and E. McArthuri (or should
that be Macarthuri)? Both of those SHOULD do well. Don't bother with
E. Nicholi (spell?) though.

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 05.07.2006 12:14:36 von Chookie

In article <>
wrote:

> Farm1 wrote:
> > And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
> > they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder there
> > are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in the bad
> > conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.

Thought the Monaro was supposed to be practically treeless?

> Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef up the
> windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow here. I've tried
> some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on alpine mountain tops
> apparently, and are endangered (euc. Baeuerlenii). Well I know why they're
> endangered, they're hopeless. A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle

Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?! They don't sound
indigenous to me, just native.

> apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera are OK
> too.

How about other species around the Leylandii/gums/whatever? Usually a row of
trees alone isn't much of a windbreak. You want a wave shape -- low plants on
the windward side, graduating to tall trees -- to push the wind over your
house.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 05.07.2006 13:57:34 von ant

Farm1 wrote:
> "ant" <> wrote in message

>> Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef
>> up the windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow here.
>
> Pines and gums grown together right form the start can do very well as
> wind breaks. They sem to grow at about the same pace if started
> together.

I suspect the pines act as "nursery" trees for the gums. Pines are rather
hard to find right now, maybe the tree police have dictated that we can't
grow them. I have a large number of Stone Pines doing rather well, they have
taken a long time to grow, and are still small, but they look awesome, and
one day I'll have Pine Nuts!

>
> I've tried
>> some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on alpine mountain tops
>> apparently, and are endangered (euc. Baeuerlenii). Well I know why
>> they're endangered, they're hopeless.
>
> :-)) Yup! I prefer the permaculture approach to the purist
> approach - whatever works in hard and hungry conditons.

Exactly. If they grow, they're in. If they don't, they can rack off! The
oaks do well here, ditto the Chinese Elms, so they're in. Maples, plane
trees, even silver birches, they've had their chance and they are not
pulling their weight.

>
> A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle
>> apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera
>> are OK too.
>
> Have you tried E. viminalis (spelling???) and E. McArthuri (or should
> that be Macarthuri)? Both of those SHOULD do well. Don't bother with
> E. Nicholi (spell?) though.

I remember seeing that Viminalis was named as a local useful gum.
MacArthurii I germinatd a bunch of at the same time as the Mannifera, but
I'm seeing more of the Mannifera around the place, not so many MacArthurii.
They grow here, I guess, but don't love it.
I think I might have tried some Nicholii but haven't noticed them a few
years on, so I guess they quietly carked it too.
I really hate Argyle Apples, but these things are shooting up like you
wouldn't believe. The Canberra government nursery has a really sensible
range of trees and always have some cheapies down the back, and since trying
to grow trees here, I've got respect for whoever chooses their varieties and
categorises them (for position and conditions).

No radiatas though.

--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 05.07.2006 14:03:11 von ant

Chookie wrote:
> In article <>, "ant"
> <> wrote:
>
>> Farm1 wrote:
>>> And the trouble with most of the indigenous Monaro species is that
>>> they are stunted ghastly bloody things to begin with. No wonder
>>> there are so many Pinus radiata everywhere. At elast they grow in
>>> the bad conditions and provide some shelter for stock and humans.
>
> Thought the Monaro was supposed to be practically treeless?
>
>> Yep! Exactly. I'm looking for some pines now, actually, just to beef
>> up the windbreak (Lleylandii Cypress) a bit. They actually grow
>> here. I've tried some allegedly indigenous gums, they grow on
>> alpine mountain tops apparently, and are endangered (euc.
>> Baeuerlenii). Well I know why they're endangered, they're hopeless.
>> A few are struggling on, meanwhile some argyle
>
> Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?!

Yes.

> They don't sound indigenous to me, just native.

From the label (of one of the many that died).
10m by 8m (har). White flowers feb-march. a small endangered gum. grows on
mountain tops and escarpments in shallow stony soils. very cold tolerant
species.

>
>> apples (my least-favourite gum) are shooting up. And the mannifera
>> are OK too.
>
> How about other species around the Leylandii/gums/whatever? Usually
> a row of trees alone isn't much of a windbreak. You want a wave
> shape -- low plants on the windward side, graduating to tall trees --
> to push the wind over your house.

why do you think the cypress are in a line? I have about half an acre
planted up with them, with various wattles in amoungst them (blackwood,
rubida, silver etc). There's a bunch of birch on the northwest side, with
some casuarinas and a struggling liquidamber, and 10 birches in a copse
between the cypress and the house. An ornamental tree has just gone in by
itself, and when it dies, I'll put in a chinese elm.

I want to but the pines in on the western side, where the wind comes from,
to help the cypress a bit.

We have planted about 300 trees here. And there's room for a lot more.



--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 06.07.2006 12:54:04 von Chookie

In article <>
wrote:

> I suspect the pines act as "nursery" trees for the gums. Pines are rather
> hard to find right now, maybe the tree police have dictated that we can't
> grow them. I have a large number of Stone Pines doing rather well, they have
> taken a long time to grow, and are still small, but they look awesome, and
> one day I'll have Pine Nuts!

I hate o tell you this, but there is a lovely park in Ramsgate (on Botany Bay)
full of Stone Pines. They are all harvested by cockatoos... so don't count on
a crop!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 07.07.2006 13:02:02 von ant

Chookie wrote:
> In article <>, "ant"
> <> wrote:
>
>> I suspect the pines act as "nursery" trees for the gums. Pines are
>> rather hard to find right now, maybe the tree police have dictated
>> that we can't grow them. I have a large number of Stone Pines doing
>> rather well, they have taken a long time to grow, and are still
>> small, but they look awesome, and one day I'll have Pine Nuts!
>
> I hate o tell you this, but there is a lovely park in Ramsgate (on
> Botany Bay) full of Stone Pines. They are all harvested by
> cockatoos... so don't count on a crop!

Dang, I never noticed the stone pines there. I quite like Ramsgate, there's
a restaurant right on the beach that I rather like. And you can watch the
aeroplanes.

I thought the birds might get them. Might have to put netting (or chain
mail) over a few of them when the seeds finally start. Very good looking
trees.


--
ant

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 09.07.2006 01:43:45 von Chookie

In article <>
wrote:

> > Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?!
>
> Yes.

OK -- thought you were closer to Canberra than that.

> > They don't sound indigenous to me, just native.
>
> From the label (of one of the many that died).
> 10m by 8m (har). White flowers feb-march. a small endangered gum. grows on
> mountain tops and escarpments in shallow stony soils. very cold tolerant
> species.

Could be from Tasmania, for all we know. Any chance of collecting seed from
trees on/near your property? Does your Council offer free trees?

> > How about other species around the Leylandii/gums/whatever? Usually
> > a row of trees alone isn't much of a windbreak. You want a wave
> > shape -- low plants on the windward side, graduating to tall trees --
> > to push the wind over your house.
>
> why do you think the cypress are in a line?

Well, that is what people seem to do with them... glad you have more sense.

It occurs to me that if your land is this difficult, you might need to do the
permaculture "pioneer species" thingy. Start with lower-growing heathland
shrubs, which are usually quite wind-tolerant, and plant up with taller
species over time.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Re: Why aren't there acorns on my little oaks?

am 09.07.2006 04:17:55 von ant

Chookie wrote:
> In article <>, "ant"
> <> wrote:
>
>>> Well -- are you living on an alpine mountain top?!
>>
>> Yes.
>
> OK -- thought you were closer to Canberra than that.

We are. I'm on the range which features the Tinderries. Semi-alpine. ACT
alpine wind warnings mean for me, batten down the hatches.


> Could be from Tasmania, for all we know. Any chance of collecting
> seed from trees on/near your property? Does your Council offer free
> trees?

they might be tasmanian, yes, The ACT gov't nursery sells a lot of them, so
I'm assuming they are also Brindabella/Tinbinbilla/Tinderry trees. They are
quite pretty, and I'm nursing the ones that are left. I might buy some more
and put them in the garden part too.

We did collect seed from the local gums, and germinated them. they are
growing OK but succumb to the sticky scale brought by the ants. The
mannifera and macarthurii seem more resistant.

> It occurs to me that if your land is this difficult, you might need
> to do the permaculture "pioneer species" thingy. Start with
> lower-growing heathland shrubs, which are usually quite
> wind-tolerant, and plant up with taller species over time.

We germinated a lot of wattles, to try and use their quick-growing as
creating a better environment. Which kind-of worked, but the place is so
big, it's hard to do anything on the scale required. Something's eating
the little casuarinas, so I'm going to give up on them for a while which is
a shame, as they are native to this area and there's some massive ones
falling apart.

I encourage the birds in the hopes that htey'll stay and eat the insects.

--
ant